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How does a baby sin?
- Thread starter Helen
- Start date
Scott_Bushey
<img src=/scott.jpg>
Helen,
Do you hear what you are saying.........The sin of Father Adam is not enough to *damn* the whole of the human race? This is certainly not orthodox, historical Christianity you support.
Babies then, do not need a savior, based upon your premise. They do not need regenerative grace.
Please look closely at this verse.........
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Do you hear what you are saying.........The sin of Father Adam is not enough to *damn* the whole of the human race? This is certainly not orthodox, historical Christianity you support.
Babies then, do not need a savior, based upon your premise. They do not need regenerative grace.
Please look closely at this verse.........
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Yes, Scott, babies die. We all die (assuming the Rapture does not come first). That is not the point either. How does a baby sin that it should be condemned to hell?
Jesus said the little children were His. He said the angels of the little ones always see the face of the Father.
What do you think He meant by that?
Jesus said the little children were His. He said the angels of the little ones always see the face of the Father.
What do you think He meant by that?
Scott_Bushey
<img src=/scott.jpg>
Helen writes:
How does a baby sin that it should be condemned to hell?
Helen, I think, by what you have asked, is the root of the problem. You seem to imply, that men are damned because of *OUR* sin? We are damned because OF sin! Sin came into the world through Adam, hence condemning all.
****Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[ October 19, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
How does a baby sin that it should be condemned to hell?
Helen, I think, by what you have asked, is the root of the problem. You seem to imply, that men are damned because of *OUR* sin? We are damned because OF sin! Sin came into the world through Adam, hence condemning all.
****Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[ October 19, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
Scott_Bushey
<img src=/scott.jpg>
Anger........
Gods righteous anger and mankinds intolerance for *things* are not the same. A baby *fussing* and getting angry becuase he is hungry, is sin!
[ October 19, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
Gods righteous anger and mankinds intolerance for *things* are not the same. A baby *fussing* and getting angry becuase he is hungry, is sin!
[ October 19, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
We would have been damned because OF sin had Jesus not died for us. But He did. Therefore damnation is now because of not believing on Christ, as John 3:16-18 and tons of other verses state!
Jesus was the one sacrifice for sin. That part He took care of. When He declared "It is finished!" He meant it.
Regarding anger, it is nowhere declared to be a sin. When I am angry because of a mother beating up her child, is that wrong? We are told that IN our anger we mustn't sin. Nowhere are we told not to be angry as a blanket statement.
And a baby fussing is trying to communicate in the only way possible. Communication is not a sin either.
Scott_Bushey
<img src=/scott.jpg>
Anger cont........
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your
Obviously, based upon the above, anger can equal sin!
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your
Obviously, based upon the above, anger can equal sin!
I am speaking as a mom and grandmother,and may I just give my opinion on when does a baby sin, Now, dear lady, looking back I never had to teach my child to stomp his feet in defiance of a spoken request, I didn't have to teach one of my little ones to say "No", it just seemed like that was the first word they could speak!....So in my humble opinion, babies are born with a defiant,rebellious,contrary, willful and sometimes angry disposition.THEN there are those who from the get-go seem to be to just be born with a gentle nature.......does that mean they are not sinful inclined???Of course,not.......like one person so aptly put it, we sin because we are born sinners.......we are bent to do so.......it's our sinful nature that continually wants to trip us up even at my age........we have rebellion against authority down deep inside our human hearts. I don't know if this helped you or not.......but sadly, the only conclusion I can come up with is this, love your children with all the ability that the Lord has given you,teach them the word of God, help them memorize Bible verses as soon as they can talk and walk, and then as they get older keep praying that they will continue to let the Word of God guide them on in their lives. My blessings to you......smileyfish 
<>{ I'm a mom of 4 and a grandma of five with one in the oven due in Dec.
<>{ I'm a mom of 4 and a grandma of five with one in the oven due in Dec.
Hi Rainbow -- I am not arguing about acting out in sin nature. I am a mother of six and grandmother of 3 and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about! Sin nature is expressed quite early!
But that is not what I am asking. I am asking specifically about babes in arms. I know they will sin as soon as they can, but CAN a babe in arms sin?
But that is not what I am asking. I am asking specifically about babes in arms. I know they will sin as soon as they can, but CAN a babe in arms sin?
Scott_Bushey
<img src=/scott.jpg>
Helen, you still have not reconcilled that passage in Romans...........
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
A baby may not be able to speak the English (or any other) language, but he can communicate falsely. Is the Bible incorrect when it says the wicked go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies?
[ October 19, 2002, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
Well Helen, I guess you can come to the conclusion that Yes, sad but true,they can........as soon as they are born,you hear anger in their cries.....and some are angry their whole life!!!!!. Other than that, I suppose you will just have to go to other more qualified people who may give a better answer.....like I said, that's just my conclusion...they are born whipper-snappers!! now, next question??????????
I know death reigns. I lost a baby before birth. I have been to funerals. I know death reigns. We are all subject to the consequences of Adam's sin. I have never argued that!
A baby may not be able to speak the English (or any other) language, but he can communicate falsely. Is the Bible incorrect when it says the wicked go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies?</font>[/QUOTE]I have yet to see a baby communicate falsely! I have understood falsely, that is for sure -- thinking hunger when it was exhaustion or something. But when a baby is crying, something is wrong. He or she is looking for something to be fixed that is wrong.
What the Bible is saying, however, is that lying itself is part of the human nature that is born into us, and that is certainly true. But no Israelite or any other person who has ever been around a newborn is going to say they speak. They don't.
Folks, please, what did Jesus mean when he said the angels of the little ones always see the face of the Father?
God Introduced Law To Adam...Don't Eat That..
What Does Law Do..Produces Sin..
Dont Covet Anything..You Just Did... Cause Somebody Told You Not To.
Thats What Being A God Is..Independent..
Nobody Tells You What To Do..
God Is And Adam Wasn't..God Says Dont Do That....Adam Did....The Law Did Its Job.
When Adam Sinned. The Results Caused Seperation. Seperation Cause Adam To Be Disconnected From His Energy source. It Also Caused His Environment To Become Disconnected From Its Energy Source..All Thats connected With Adam Started To Decay With Entropy or The Loss Of Power.
Anything That Is Decayed Is Not Perfect. God Spirit Cannot Exist With Imperfection.
Everything That Is Born Of Water...Human Reproduction Creates A Spirit Container..
Jesus Called It A Wineskin. A Container That Holds Wine. Our Container Is Damaged At Conception. The Baby's Body Contains Entropy..Its Born With A Human Body that Contains Entropy.
Everything In This Universe Is Cursed With Entropy. Its Born and Its Joined With Spirit. Were A Two Part Creature. "We" Become Cursed. We Are Joined With Something Thats Decaying.
Being Unplugged From The Spirit Source..We Allow our Carnal Senses To Guide Us.
We Are Called Carnal Minded.. It Saturates Everything We Choose To Do. Essentually We Are Our Own God in Our Own Universe. A Universe Based On Death. On Sin. or Carnal Minded Control. God Cant Exist Within Its Boundries...Its Not Perfect..
Ive Said Before..When We Shed Our Body. When We Are Removed From This Universe. Christ Has Already Paid All Penalties Of Being Seperated From God.
WE CAN BE REJOINED IN FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD.
There Are No Obstacles Between Any Human and God.
What Seperates Us From God Now Is The Carnal Way We Act And Think and Choose.
Theoretically...Jesus Paid All Sin..
God Draws Us...or You Can Say. he Unveils Our Ignorance To The Whole Truth. Whether We Accept The Fact That God Died For His Creation or Not Is Here nor There ..It Happened..We Just Become Aware Of That Fact.
Now Its Our Job To Relay That Truth..But Theres That Carnal Way of Thinking and Acting and Choosing of Others That Gets In Our Way. They Just Dont Get It....Or Is It Gods Not Unveiling Their Ignorance To The Real Truth?....Its All A Matter Of Timing.
Death Is Your Big Bugaboo..
But Life Continues To Go On For Those Who Die. Just Another Phase of A Larger Plan.
Remember God Is Infinite Love...Everything Happens In His Timing
**Or We Can Be Religiously Dogmatic..Say That The Law Is Impenetrable..Only Those By Faith, Hear and Believe (and Comprehend) Goes To "Heaven" and all The Rest Burn In "Hell".
With God Its Always All Or Nothing....All Are Treated Equally..
You Got Mercy ? Who Doesn't Deserve To Be Treated The Same ?.
.....Be Careful...Answering That Question Could Be SIN.
You Could Be Partial or Doubleminded. Thats Judging Your Fellowman.
The Soul That Sins SHALL DIE...Infinite Justice Without Infinite Mercy ! Right ?
You Want To Create Loopholes in Gods Law...Its Impossible.
You Say...Some Saved, Some Damned...Oh Well. (and I Get To Choose Who)
Its All Or Nothing..Everyone or No One. Your No Better That Anyone Else...
God Chose You To Be An Ambassador Of Reconciliation To Them...First.
Gods Choice Is Everybody..
Thats Infinite Mercy , Infinite Love, Infinite Forgiveness, Infinite Compassion.
Me2
What Does Law Do..Produces Sin..
Dont Covet Anything..You Just Did... Cause Somebody Told You Not To.
Thats What Being A God Is..Independent..
Nobody Tells You What To Do..
God Is And Adam Wasn't..God Says Dont Do That....Adam Did....The Law Did Its Job.
When Adam Sinned. The Results Caused Seperation. Seperation Cause Adam To Be Disconnected From His Energy source. It Also Caused His Environment To Become Disconnected From Its Energy Source..All Thats connected With Adam Started To Decay With Entropy or The Loss Of Power.
Anything That Is Decayed Is Not Perfect. God Spirit Cannot Exist With Imperfection.
Everything That Is Born Of Water...Human Reproduction Creates A Spirit Container..
Jesus Called It A Wineskin. A Container That Holds Wine. Our Container Is Damaged At Conception. The Baby's Body Contains Entropy..Its Born With A Human Body that Contains Entropy.
Everything In This Universe Is Cursed With Entropy. Its Born and Its Joined With Spirit. Were A Two Part Creature. "We" Become Cursed. We Are Joined With Something Thats Decaying.
Being Unplugged From The Spirit Source..We Allow our Carnal Senses To Guide Us.
We Are Called Carnal Minded.. It Saturates Everything We Choose To Do. Essentually We Are Our Own God in Our Own Universe. A Universe Based On Death. On Sin. or Carnal Minded Control. God Cant Exist Within Its Boundries...Its Not Perfect..
Ive Said Before..When We Shed Our Body. When We Are Removed From This Universe. Christ Has Already Paid All Penalties Of Being Seperated From God.
WE CAN BE REJOINED IN FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD.
There Are No Obstacles Between Any Human and God.
What Seperates Us From God Now Is The Carnal Way We Act And Think and Choose.
Theoretically...Jesus Paid All Sin..
God Draws Us...or You Can Say. he Unveils Our Ignorance To The Whole Truth. Whether We Accept The Fact That God Died For His Creation or Not Is Here nor There ..It Happened..We Just Become Aware Of That Fact.
Now Its Our Job To Relay That Truth..But Theres That Carnal Way of Thinking and Acting and Choosing of Others That Gets In Our Way. They Just Dont Get It....Or Is It Gods Not Unveiling Their Ignorance To The Real Truth?....Its All A Matter Of Timing.
Death Is Your Big Bugaboo..
But Life Continues To Go On For Those Who Die. Just Another Phase of A Larger Plan.
Remember God Is Infinite Love...Everything Happens In His Timing
**Or We Can Be Religiously Dogmatic..Say That The Law Is Impenetrable..Only Those By Faith, Hear and Believe (and Comprehend) Goes To "Heaven" and all The Rest Burn In "Hell".
With God Its Always All Or Nothing....All Are Treated Equally..
You Got Mercy ? Who Doesn't Deserve To Be Treated The Same ?.
.....Be Careful...Answering That Question Could Be SIN.
You Could Be Partial or Doubleminded. Thats Judging Your Fellowman.
The Soul That Sins SHALL DIE...Infinite Justice Without Infinite Mercy ! Right ?
You Want To Create Loopholes in Gods Law...Its Impossible.
You Say...Some Saved, Some Damned...Oh Well. (and I Get To Choose Who)
Its All Or Nothing..Everyone or No One. Your No Better That Anyone Else...
God Chose You To Be An Ambassador Of Reconciliation To Them...First.
Gods Choice Is Everybody..
Thats Infinite Mercy , Infinite Love, Infinite Forgiveness, Infinite Compassion.
Me2
Helen, I would agree with the second sentence and respectfully disagree with the first. However, our interpretations of a baby's specific communications based on our experience will not Biblically settle the question.
I think we are in agreement here, at least in that lying is part of the human nature, and we are born with it. But the psalmist is not just saying that we are born with a sin nature, but that it is in activation AS SOON AS we are born.
But that IS what the Israelitish Psalmist said. Maybe you are saying that is not what he meant. Is this poetic license? Do they go astray AS SOON AS they are born, or is the writer merely overemphasizing to make a point?