How does a baby sin?

[Clint Kritzer]

Scott asks:
How then is a infant above these specifications?

No one, including an infant, is above these specifications. However, Christ is coming back to JUDGE us by our sins, not to apply blanket condemnation. The only way ANY of us are going tomake it to Heaven is by Christ administering mercy.

2 Peter 3
9The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Your immediate reply to my post shows that you were waiting for that response. Please take time to read the other cited verses concerning children.

As for Judgment, let's look at it this way: two deaths occur today from vehicles hitting people. In the first scenario a motorist deliberately runs up on the sidewalk and runs down a man. In the second scenario a tie rod breaks and the driver, unable to control the vehicle hits another man killing him. Both motorists go to court, both charged with vehicular homocide.

Will they be judged the same? Would that serve justice?

Our God is Just and is capable and willing to show mercy (Matthew 5:7).

Romans 9

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Clint,
Sorry about the prevous post and it's lacking content.......I should know better than posting when I don't have the proper time!

Certain posts imply that children are *sinless*. This idea being based upon the scripture, "sin is not imputed (to the infant) where there is no law", and based upon the premise that a infant is too young to understand sin.
This I disagree with; my previous postings reflecting why.

In regards to people who have never heard of the law or gospel, you have cited (Clint) Romans 2:14-15 which says that the law is written on the hearts of them which have no law. Does this include infants?

Romans 2:14-15 does not contradict Romans 5:13 as the answer lies within Romans 5:14.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

~The ultimate questions being:
1) Can a baby sin?
2) Is sin *imputed* to Adam's offspring?

You also add:
Though I have not asserted that babies are sinless (as I have no way to be certain one way or the other, only God can judge the heart), no human being is worthy of salvation. It is through the Grace of Christ that we attain any parity that allows us into Heaven.

Scott asks:
Does not the scriptures cite that "all have sinned?" Did not David say that even he, was brought forth in iniquity? Did not Job say "Who can bring a clean thing out of the unclean?"

I agree Clint that it is all of Gods grace alone. All deserve to perish.....You say, "No Human Being is worthy of salvation". I ask you, do you include infants in this statement? Are they worthy, and if so, how are they worthy?

Clint writes:
Your immediate reply to my post shows that you were waiting for that response. Please take time to read the other cited verses concerning children.

Scott answers:
I have read the presentations......

Clint,
In regards to your analogy......I believe it lacks! For instance, if both drivers were drunk, would they be judged the same? Yes! You see, the infant has the same problem as you or I...we need
a savior. We are drunk (with sin) and under condemnation. It matters not that one of the drivers may be *morally* better than the other. We are still "drunk". Only Gods grace can save us. That is based on nothing that we have done, but Him showing mercy to whomever He wills.

[ October 21, 2002, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]

 

[Angie Miller]

I believe there is not only an age of accountability but also that we are brought into this world sinful. Even babies. No I sure don't think if they pass away before any understanding that God would not welcome them with open arms. They are innocent to a major degree but are still born OF sin.
I also believe that EVERY single person in this entire world will know of God and the sacrifice of Jesus for them. The Bible says it and so be it. There are so many beautiful reminders of God around us each and every second of every day. In their hearts, even if they have not heard the Gospel they will know there is a God. I truly think God puts that in everyones heart and it is up to us to ignore it or love and obey our Father.
I even think that those with severe handicaps of some kind or another know of good and bad. It could be they can not control what they do at times but I think they know.
The only thing that matters is what God knows and what He does. We do not know God's reasons for everything and are not meant to so I sure don't think we can say specifically one way or the other out of contect of the Scripture.
Love in Christ Angie

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Angie writes:
I also believe that EVERY single person in this entire world will know of God and the sacrifice of Jesus for them. The Bible says it and so be it.

He_walks_with_me writes:
Doesn't the bible say somewhere that every person will have the opportunity of hearing the 'law' before their death?
May it be once, twice, or three times.........and if they dismiss the chance they got...well.......

Scott asks:
Can either of you please produce the scriptural support for this claim?

Thanks!

 

[Helen]

This thread has evidently gotten the attention of a number of other people. I received this question in an email and pass it along as an interesting one:

if you had baby Jesus and another baby, could you tell the difference? Would Jesus cry less? What is the sinful behavior that the other baby would be engaging in, that Jesus wouldn't have been doing?


Any takers?

 

[he_walks_with_me]

Scott,
No, I can not produce scriptures to support this claim, hence the question marks

I got this from my sister tonight, as we have actually had this discussion many years ago.
The following is something Dr. Rice wrote

I believe little babies and small children who have not yet reached the age of accountability, go immediately to be with the savior when they die.
When a little child has a disposition to evil, with which he is born, he is not accountable to God as a recognized sinner until he is conscience of his sin. I think that 1cor 15 22 would apply to such a child: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. The taint which is in our human nature, which we inherited in Adam and our parents, was paid for by Jesus Christ. One who is a known and deliberate sinner, needs to repent of his sin and trust Christ for forgiveness, but unaccountable infant is paid for by the blood of Christ and I believe goes at once to heaven.
David lost a baby, he prayed much but the baby died. David said but now he is dead wherefore should I fast ? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him but he shall not return to me.
2 Sam 12:23 David was a saved man and went to heaven but he said that he would go to the baby, so the baby was also in heaven.
We also remember that the Bible tells us that God is suffering to-ward us not willing that any should perish. 2 peter 3:9; And he who does not want anybody to perish, surely would keep a little one who is not accountable as a known and intentional, rebellious sinner against God.

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Angie writes:
I believe little babies and small children who have not yet reached the age of accountability, go immediately to be with the savior when they die.

Scott inquires (yet again),
Can you pleas support this claim with scripture?

 

[Scott_Bushey]

Helen writes:
if you had baby Jesus and another baby, could you tell the difference? Would Jesus cry less? What is the sinful behavior that the other baby would be engaging in, that Jesus wouldn't have been doing?

Scott replies:
Well, scripture states that in whatever Jesus did, He did not sin. Unless of course you are implying also, that Jesus was not held accountable to His sin prior to the (so called theory) * age of accountability *

[ October 22, 2002, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]

 

[Abiyah]

The cattle are lowing
The baby awakes
But little Lord Jesus
No crying He makes

2 Luke 1:34

 

[Angie Miller]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey:
Angie writes:
I also believe that EVERY single person in this entire world will know of God and the sacrifice of Jesus for them. The Bible says it and so be it.

He_walks_with_me writes:
Doesn't the bible say somewhere that every person will have the opportunity of hearing the 'law' before their death?
May it be once, twice, or three times.........and if they dismiss the chance they got...well.......

Scott asks:
Can either of you please produce the scriptural support for this claim?

Thanks!

I am not too good at finding my Scripture, but I will get some help with it and get it for you. Love in Christ Angie

 

[Angie Miller]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey:
Angie writes:
I believe little babies and small children who have not yet reached the age of accountability, go immediately to be with the savior when they die.

Scott inquires (yet again),
Can you pleas support this claim with scripture?

Patience is a virtue, I am looking! Love In Christ Angie

 

[weeping prophet]

?[/qb][/QUOTE] Patience is a virtue, I am looking! : Love In Christ Angie[/QB][/QUOTE]

Stop looking Angie, you won't find any. Maybe I can give you a little peace about the babies though. Have you stopped to think that if the sin of Adam was imputed to babies, that the righteousness of Christ could be imputed to them also, to those who have no chance to respond in faith. Not a scripture, just a thought.Blessing, WP

 

[Angie Miller]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey:
Angie writes:
I also believe that EVERY single person in this entire world will know of God and the sacrifice of Jesus for them. The Bible says it and so be it.

He_walks_with_me writes:
Doesn't the bible say somewhere that every person will have the opportunity of hearing the 'law' before their death?
May it be once, twice, or three times.........and if they dismiss the chance they got...well.......

Scott asks:
Can either of you please produce the scriptural support for this claim?

Thanks!

Romans1:20- For since the creation of the world God's invisable qualities-His eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so men are without excuse.

There is a start anyway. Love in Christ Angie

 

[Angie Miller]

Originally posted by weeping prophet:
?

Patience is a virtue, I am looking! : Love In Christ Angie[/QB][/QUOTE]

Stop looking Angie, you won't find any. Maybe I can give you a little peace about the babies though. Have you stopped to think that if the sin of Adam was imputed to babies, that the righteousness of Christ could be imputed to them also, to those who have no chance to respond in faith. Not a scripture, just a thought.Blessing, WP[/QB][/QUOTE]
If there is not any then why is he asking me for it? Why does he not just say as you did there is none? Wht am I asking you? Just teasing!
Good point and point taken. Love in Christ Angie

 

[he_walks_with_me]

Good job Angie!!!

My sister just told me today to look at Romans 1:20

 

[Angie Miller]

Originally posted by he_walks_with_me:
Good job Angie!!!

My sister just told me today to look at Romans 1:20

Thanks, but I have to admit I got help! LOL