How Does Arminian theology Treat Jesus "if I be lifted up" saying?

[The Biblicist]

What a ridiculous argument, why would God have to be long-suffering toward anyone when he could instantly regenerate them and make them irresistibly willing to repent?

You've gotta throw your brain in the trash to believe this silliness.

1 Cor. 2:14?

The elect come through the non-elect. Everything about the non-elect have an impact upon the elect and so God is longsuffering to the non-elect withholding his wrath for our sakes. Just think it though and you can see it is absolutely necessary, completely vital that God must be longsuffering to the non-elect or otherwise he would destroy the elect with them. Just think it through.

 

[The Biblicist]

2 questions...

Could that instead be stating that if he is lifted up and recognized as being Messiah, those doing such will be drawn to him?

And if all men will be drawn to Him, is that automatically in a saving way ?
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

John 12:32 Nasb

1. He was not yet lifted up when He spoke this - Hence, it cannot refer to all men without exception from Adam to the last because all men without exception from Adam to Malichi were already dead before the cross occurred.

2. He has not drawn all men without exception to him since the tme of the icross as many have died not even knowing that Jesus existed and archeological evidence proves no evidence of Christianity among them and where missionaries have gone in the past 100 years there was no knowledge existent of the cross or in their past cultural history or tradition that was related.


3. The immediate context has reference to GREEKS/gentiles whom the Jews demanded must become Jews to be saved but Christ and the cross does not make racial distinctions but includes "ALL" men without distinction.


Therefore, it is utterly impossible to sustain or defend that all men from Adam to the last man living in every culture under the sun has been drawn to Christ by the cross.

 

[BobRyan]

What in the world are you talking about?

What is silly is the idea that if Calvinism is true, why would God ever have to be longsuffering and patient waiting for one of the elect to repent when he could instantly regenerate that person?

Now, if you can't figure out how ridiculous that is, then ask your youngest child and he will tell you.

True.

The Calvinist "better living through better programming" does not fit with these appeals "we BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God" 2Cor 5 -- and all this "long suffering" as if God is waiting on a being with free will to make the right choice.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[The Biblicist]

True.

The Calvinist "better living through better programming" does not fit with these appeals "we BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God" 2Cor 5 -- and all this "long suffering" as if God is waiting on a being with free will to make the right choice.

in Christ,

Bob

I have presented the grammatical evidence of the pronouns used in this passage beginning with verse 13 through verse 20 that prove the above "you" is the born again, but highly divided church members at Corinth that need reconcilation with each other and thus with God as you cannot be at war with your brethren and at peace with God - impossible. No one yet has addressed this evidence except by the common eisgetical methods (scoff, deflect, ignore, RJP). However, you keep repeating your nonsense as though your were correctly interpreting the verse and you are not.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no such thing as "begging the born again saints who ARE fully reconciled to God - to BE reconciled to God" and we all know it.

2Cor 5 says "God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself" - that is a lost world - turns out the gospel is to address the sin problem.

A more obvious point could hardly be made - and yet the deny-all solution of Calvinism need to turn a blind eye even to this incredibly obvious Bible teaching.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective readers.

in Christ,

Bob