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How does one lose his salvation?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by CubeX, Mar 27, 2005.

  1. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    I believe that it can refer to a chastening of His children here on Earth, but that the final verse in the chapter precludes any possibility for loss of salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]JackRUS

    You are wrong to assume that the final verse of this chapter "precludes any possibility for loss of salvation"

    It is quite clear that there are two groups of believers referred to here:

    "But WE ARE not OF THEM who shrink back unto perdition, but OF THEM that believe to the saving of the soul"

    There are some believers who will "draw back", and others who will not. Paul here puts himself with the latter, as hopes that his readers are with him here.

    The strong language used in verses 26-31, cannot be taken to refer to any punishment for belivers here on earth. Did you read verse 28? "He that despised (Greek, atheteo="rejected") Moses' law, died without mercy under two or three witnesses", then goes on to say in verse 29, "of how much more severe punishment..." What can it mean for a beliver to "trample under foot the Son of God"? Surely it can be only mean to treat Jesus with the utmost contempt. Then, we read that this person "counts", or "esteemed" the Holy blood of Jesus as "unholy", and thereby "insulted the Holy Spirit". If this is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, - indeed, against the Most Holy Trinity, and that be one who is here considered as "santified", language that can ONLY be used for one who is truly born again, - then I really don't know what this can refer to. It most certainly is one of the mose severe warnings in the entire Bible, and cannot be taken lightly!
     
  2. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Then please explain why we find in the scriptures all the various warnings against "falling away", especially the one in Revelation about one's name being blotted from the Book of Life? </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, the Book of Life. Please read Psalm 69 (vs. 28) and see if David is talking about saved people there. This book can also refer to physical life given the context.

    In Scripture the emphatic always overrules the implied. Try instead John 10:28-29 and Romans 8:29-39 for some real emphatic Scripture on the subject.
     
  3. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Icthus.
    You wrote:
    No, actually Paul clearly wrote "but we (not 'I and maybe some of you...') are not of them that draw back."

    He is addressing all of the saved readers of the epistle with this verse. And not knowing their hearts he makes quite a statement on their eternal security.

    At least we agree that Paul was most likely the author of the epistle. Of course he is still the same Paul that wrote Romans 8:29-39 (most emphatic) and Phil. 1:6 as well, and would never contradict himself in Hebrews on eternal security.

    I should have been more clear though concerning Hebrews 10:29-31. Hebrews 10:26 (the 'we' here being fellow Hebrews)-31 refers to apostates who have heard the truth of the Gospel and reject it.

    What I meant is that verse 31 can also refer to a severe chastening at the hands of the Lord for believers. Just ask Ananias and Sapphira.

    A couple of years ago my Baptist church needed a new pastor and the deacons conspired to bring in a Calvinist pastor. He got hired and it split up the church. That young pastor contracted cancer soon after his arrival here and died recently after a long battle with the disease. Coincidence? You'll never convince me of that.

    BTW, we had a clear church constitution that spelled out our non-Calvinistic doctrine. The deacons got him in and then set out to re-write the constitution to one of hyper-Calvinism and elder rule.

    One of their main directives was that no one connected to any ministry could give out the Gospel and ask anyone to receive Christ. Whoever did was fired by the church. They also stopped all support of any non-Calvinistic missionaries. We recently picked up some of them with our new church.

    This church was one of the best soul winning churches in our area. It is now effectively a dead church.
     
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