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How Does Theology of Molinism Figure into Concept Election/predestination?
- Thread starter DaChaser1
- Start date
According to Closed Theism, aka Hyper Calvinism, God ordained whatsoever comes to pass. This view eliminates the possiblity that God created beings with the capacity to make autonomous choices, because God predestined each and every choice, making God the author of sin.
Now if God did not predestine everything, then his creatures might be able to make some choices where the outcome is not predestined, i.e. actual choices rather than non-choice where they "choose" the only outcome possible.
Viewed in this light, all Arminians and many Calvinists who denie God is the author of sin are Open Theists to a limited degree.
If folks would have witnessed my miracles, they would have repented (paraphase of Matthew 11:23) teaches that God knows what past or existing people would do given a circumstance that may or may not have occurred in the past or may or may not occur in the future.
Now if God did not predestine everything, then his creatures might be able to make some choices where the outcome is not predestined, i.e. actual choices rather than non-choice where they "choose" the only outcome possible.
Viewed in this light, all Arminians and many Calvinists who denie God is the author of sin are Open Theists to a limited degree.
If folks would have witnessed my miracles, they would have repented (paraphase of Matthew 11:23) teaches that God knows what past or existing people would do given a circumstance that may or may not have occurred in the past or may or may not occur in the future.
I think as necessary part of this discussion is the counter factuals of freedom. Specifically how it relates to the nature of God's knowledge...I'm speaking epistemically here.
Interesting read, I agreed with much but certainly not all of the assertions.
This assertion runs counter to scripture: Election, then, is first and foremost a corporate notion: God has chosen for Himself a people, a corporate entity, and it is up to us by our response of faith whether or not we choose to be members of that corporate group destined to salvation.
The issue is do we put ourselves into (and perhaps out of) God's corporately chosen group, or does God credit our faith as righteousness and then God puts us into the chosen group? Verses like 1 Cor. 1:30 seem to say God puts individuals into the group.
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Molinism ...like all non cals here has a wrong understanding of the biblical teaching of foreknowledge.....it is error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism
quantumfaith
Active Member
:tear::tear::BangHead:
Yet another word meaning rewrite
Grace is the bestowal of divine favor. Therefore election for salvation is an act of grace. Therefore our faith provides our access to the grace of election. QED
Grace is the bestowal of divine favor. Therefore election for salvation is an act of grace. Therefore our faith provides our access to the grace of election. QED
I think he’s been determined to pronounce anything in error that goes against the declarations of the “holy confession”. Reasoning has no place in such a mindset. I wouldn’t begin to think I should try to get him to engage in rational discussion in such a deep subject.
Nice article by the way. :thumbs:
what did you think?
Well okay...lets show why...one more time: from the article;
That's why Paul can go on in Romans 10 to say, "There is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. For 'everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved'" (10. 12-13). Reformed theology can make no sense at all of this wonderful, universal call to salvation. Whosoever will may come.
Reformed theology makes perfect sense of all these ....universal sections.
God's eternal plan included a worldwide spread of the gospel all along...although the spread was gradual.
Jews believed that they alone were only ever to be chosen Amos3:2...but they missed God's design....that is what Paul is explaining to them..
They misunderstood...but God is never caught by surprise at all because he has ordained to deal with fallen man by way of His Covenant. The story of jonah...and many of the kingdom parables illustrate this...
It went from God loves some among Israel....to God loves some from all the world..... Not all of Israel...not all of the world.......just MANY of them.Paul's burden, then, in Romans 9 is not to narrow the scope of God's election but to broaden it. He wants to take in all who have faith in Christ Jesus regardless of their ethnicity. Election, then, is first and foremost a corporate notion:
No...it is not...Election is individuals who are formed into the one body...jew or gentile.....
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Peter says it this way:
4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
God has chosen for Himself a people, a corporate entity, and it is up to us by our response of faith whether or not we choose to be members of that corporate group destined to salvation.
This is horrendous.... God does not chose a corporate no name,he does not know who or what group.....as if God elects a big train....but you the sinner must punch your own ticket to get on the train.....no..that is garbage..not scripture
6Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
7How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
9Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
1.Isaiah 49:16
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
No one likes when we point out that the other positions are man centered...yet this quote cannot be plainer....the author leaves it up to man...and God can only react to what man does...so in reality ,,,god cannot save if man does not allow him to.....this way they can also say...god sends no one to hell....they send themselves there
Of course, given God's total providence over the affairs of men, this is not the whole story. But Molinism makes good sense of the rest. John 6. 65 means that apart from God's grace no one can come to God on his own. But there's no suggestion there that those who refused to believe in Christ did not do so of their own free will.
No one seeks God ...no...not one
If anyone seeks...it is God seeking the lost,enabling the person to seek after God's truth
God knows in exactly what circumstances people will freely respond to His grace and places people in circumstances in which each one receives sufficient grace for salvation if only that person will avail himself of it.
This weak teaching has a god who only "knows" what men will or will not do,and disregards the fall and death in Adam...to having once again a wounded Adam who still has full ability...rather than total inability.
But God knows who will respond and who won't. So again the fault does not lie with God that some persons freely resist God's grace and every effort to save them; rather they like Israel fail to attain salvation because they refuse to have faith.
if man can do it by himself ...he does not need to be saved...he justs needs a little bit more information.....he can pick and choose whatever he wants to do or not do....Jesus can pay for sin in general.....but man can decide if he feels like .....TRYING Jesus.....
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Molinism seems a lot like the theology that was outlined in my Assemblies of God days at their school, in the book Elect in the Son, by robert Shanks!
quantumfaith
Active Member
Shanks must have been a pretty smart guy.
Smart, but totally misunderstood the concept of divine Election!