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Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
The word is what gives life (John 6:63, 68). Peter confirms this in 1 Peter 1 when he talks about being born again by the word that was preached to you. Simply put, when they hear it, they will live (future, ongoing).
Notice what the text says -- Those who hear will live. That is a true statement for Calvinists. It does not say that that is the beginning of life or the first instance of life.
*I* would like for it to say? *MY CONCLUSION*? Please show me where I have said that to be my conclusion or my desire, sir? I CAN post your quote, which you are now peddling hard to distance yourself from. But you cannot show me making any such conclusion or expressing any such desire. Physician, heed your own counsel.
It does not say that those who hear are then made alive. That is what you would like for it to say. But it does not say that.
Careful reading of the text shows that your conclusion that dead men hear in order to be made alive is not a necessary deduction from the text.
It certainly sounds like what he is saying to me.Originally posted by Yelsew:
So then, Pastor Larry, you are agreeing that man is not regenerated in order that man can hear and believe. That is true is it not? Do you then also agree that regeneration is being born again and that being born again is the result of hearing the Word and Believing?
You guys are a little dense todayOriginally posted by Yelsew:
So then, Pastor Larry, you are agreeing that man is not regenerated in order that man can hear and believe. That is true is it not? Do you then also agree that regeneration is being born again and that being born again is the result of hearing the Word and Believing?
Name one and cite the source. I would like to see what they say about it.Originally posted by PappaBear:
Many Cals will vehemently deny those statements.
Not at all. I answered this before and below.And I notice you deftly dance around a concrete answer. Does hearing come before or after regeneraton in your Calvinist Ordo Salutis?
Your whole contention was based on this. You want this passage to be the inital giving of life to the spiritually dead person. That is your whole bone of contention with us. Surely you do not deny that do you??? Look back at your posts and see for yourself.*I* would like for it to say? *MY CONCLUSION*? Please show me where I have said that to be my conclusion or my desire, sir?
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
The main emphasis is on the end times and the final resurrection. ... Why use this passage about the end times as something else?
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
OUCH! The way you have yourself so twisted up, it hurts me just to look at it.Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
The "and now is" is a parenthetical designed to show that the present giving of life is a precursor of the life-giving that is to come. The life that is to come is what the focus of the text is.
Perhaps it is you that is twisted. It doesn't look funny to me in the least. And having tested it with numerous others, it didn't look funny to them. Quite often, "twistedness" is in the eye of the beholder.Originally posted by PappaBear:
OUCH! The way you have yourself so twisted up, it hurts me just to look at it.
I praise God for the same thing. We can both be grateful that the doctrine of election is not dependent on whether or not we personally believe in it. Jesus Christ is the one who saves us. God is calling out for himself a people and we can rejoice in that together.Well, I praise God that I am one of the dead who NOW IS raised to life! I am in the parentheses, Praise the Lord Jesus Christ! Everlasting life is mine! Why? Because he that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. I received Him! What a joy that I can look forward to that day of judgment without fear of being lost.
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Perhaps it is you that is twisted.
Originally posted by PappaBear:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Perhaps it is you that is twisted.
AGreed with what?? You agree with me that at the last resurrection, the dead will be brought to life by the voice??? Then to make sense of the context, you must agree with that about the spiritual life given now, that the word is what brings them to life. That is what I said at the beginning and you disputed it.Originally posted by PappaBear:
Agreed, Pastor Larry.
I agree that life comes through the WordAGreed with what??
I agree that life comes through the Word </font>[/QUOTE]Then why did you disagree with me when I said that?? I don't think you and I believe the same thing and I think you have repeatedly said that life comes through man making a choice to believe and repent, though I don't want to put words in your mouth.Originally posted by PappaBear:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />AGreed with what??