How far do you take SEPARATION doctrine?

[DHK]

Well you obviously supported separation at one time since you went to BJU. I would think that would help you understand that position as well as what would help one change their mind on Separation. Although I think if you want to go to the reformed dispensational church you should go there. Be the leader

You are quoting me.
I am not a Calvinist and would never go to a Reformed or Calvinist church.
I think they all should follow Calvin, go all the way, accept baptismal regeneration, and join the Presbyterians. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[blessedwife318]

Sorry DHK I meant to be quoting Evan. That's what I get for doing this on my phone and not a computer

 

[evangelist6589]

What sorts of areas or events would you have your church cooperate with the Calvinist church?

There was a discernment conference in September and the IFB church had no association nor endorsed it yet lots of other churches got invited.

 

[Salty]

Lol...whatever, I just gave you a textbook example of how it's understood. I honestly don't care to argue particulars just wanted clear up what is and isn't in consideration. You'll notice I said Gospel activity and not political.

I didn't mention politics

 

[Yeshua1]

Some are so big on SEPARATION they even will separate from non Baptist churches over minor issues like the King James Version, alcohol, and or music. Personally I can't find this approach in scripture so why people still teach it is beyond me. I mean why do these separatists not learn how to read the bible for all its worth? Where does the bible say to separate from a brother who used the ESV and believes having a beverage here and there is okay? Do the separatists ever read the arguments for alcohol? The bible says a elder is to be above reproach and not given to TOO MUCH WINE indicating that he can have a drink sometimes.

This greatly puzzles me. I am open to debate with those holding this extreme view of 2nd or 3rd degree separation.

Would say that we must seperate over core/essential doctrines of the faith, but remain graceful in those other issues that we just honestly disagree the scriptures are teaching us!

Would ou seperate if a church did not hold to LS, or if they were arminian?

 

[evangelist6589]

Would say that we must seperate over core/essential doctrines of the faith, but remain graceful in those other issues that we just honestly disagree the scriptures are teaching us!



Would ou seperate if a church did not hold to LS, or if they were arminian?

No I would not despite the disagreements.

 

[preachinjesus]

I didn't mention politics

Abortion isn't part of the Gospel.

 

[DHK]

There was a discernment conference in September and the IFB church had no association nor endorsed it yet lots of other churches got invited.

Perhaps your pastor already has a lot of discernment.

 

[OldRegular]

Some are so big on SEPARATION they even will separate from non Baptist churches over minor issues like the King James Version, alcohol, and or music. Personally I can't find this approach in scripture so why people still teach it is beyond me. I mean why do these separatists not learn how to read the bible for all its worth? Where does the bible say to separate from a brother who used the ESV and believes having a beverage here and there is okay? Do the separatists ever read the arguments for alcohol? The bible says a elder is to be above reproach and not given to TOO MUCH WINE indicating that he can have a drink sometimes.

This greatly puzzles me. I am open to debate with those holding this extreme view of 2nd or 3rd degree separation.

I did not realize Baptist Churches were joined to non-Baptist Churches. Why should they be?

 

[Salty]

I did not realize Baptist Churches were joined to non-Baptist Churches. Why should they be?

Not sure about other parts of the country, but here in Upstate NY, there are several "federated" churches.
You will find these in smaller villages, where 2 or 3 churches who years ago each had sufficient size congregations. However over the years, the membership has declined.
You will see such mergers with Bap & Presyb; Bap & Meth; Bap & United Church of Christ.

What many will do - is if the current pastor is Presbyterian - then the next pastor will be Baptist. The church will be in associations for both denominations, and ect.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are quoting me.
I am not a Calvinist and would never go to a Reformed or Calvinist church.
I think they all should follow Calvin, go all the way, accept baptismal regeneration, and join the Presbyterians. :smilewinkgrin:

Except that there are many reformed and calvinistic baptists, and we could say that those holding to freewill grace should depart and stop being being Baptists, but the baptist camp includes both of those positions!

 

[Rebel]

Extreme ideas and practices of separation are rather silly. I know Protestants, including Baptists, think they are so different from each other and from Roman Catholics, but they are not. They share much the same soteriology, especially as concerns the atonement, as all the Western churches do. Concerning the atonement, there is not a dime's worth of difference between them.

 

[DHK]

Except that there are many reformed and calvinistic baptists, and we could say that those holding to freewill grace should depart and stop being being Baptists, but the baptist camp includes both of those positions!

A nearby Baptist church preached the simple gospel: salvation by grace through faith not of works. He had been there a long time and had to retire because of age. Without going through a lot of details the church ended up with a pastor that believed in Calvinism. The church went through two splits and now is a fraction of which it used to be. The gospel is not preached as it used to be. There is no zeal or fervency for the lost or for missions as there once was.

Of course why should there be? The elect will be elected with or without our help. Why should we do anything about it? It is all predetermined isn't it?

 

[DHK]

Extreme ideas and practices of separation are rather silly. I know Protestants, including Baptists, think they are so different from each other and from Roman Catholics, but they are not. They share much the same soteriology, especially as concerns the atonement, as all the Western churches do. Concerning the atonement, there is not a dime's worth of difference between them.

I believe we are talking more or ecclesiastical separation.
If you are a pastor who would you invite to preach in your pulpit?
Is it someone that believes so differently that it may sway new believers to leave your church, cause a church split, etc.
A charsimatic speaking on tongues? A Presbyterian emphasizing covenants and perhaps baptismal regeneration (as Calvin believed), a Baptist KJVO who says that the King James is better than the Greek and Hebrew, etc.
What kind of smorgasbord doctrine do you, as the shepherd of you flock, allow your flock to feed on? Do you feed them weeds, even noxious ones? Weeds that will poison them? Or just the pure milk and then meat of the Word of God, as a shepherd should. Guard the pulpit carefully.

 

[Rebel]

I believe we are talking more or ecclesiastical separation.
If you are a pastor who would you invite to preach in your pulpit?
Is it someone that believes so differently that it may sway new believers to leave your church, cause a church split, etc.
A charsimatic speaking on tongues? A Presbyterian emphasizing covenants and perhaps baptismal regeneration (as Calvin believed), a Baptist KJVO who says that the King James is better than the Greek and Hebrew, etc.
What kind of smorgasbord doctrine do you, as the shepherd of you flock, allow your flock to feed on? Do you feed them weeds, even noxious ones? Weeds that will poison them? Or just the pure milk and then meat of the Word of God, as a shepherd should. Guard the pulpit carefully.

If the conversation is more about ecclesiastical separation, then your point is more valid.

 

[DHK]

If the conversation is more about ecclesiastical separation, then your point is more valid.

That is what it was about. I have already posted in this thread concerning ecclesiastical separation. That is what the OP is about:

Some are so big on SEPARATION they even will separate from non Baptist churches over minor issues like the King James Version, alcohol, and or music.

What makes you think it has nothing to do with church separation?

 

[Salty]

From DHK's post # 36
Some are so big on SEPARATION they even will separate from non Baptist churches over minor issues like the King James Version, alcohol, and or music.


However - to many of those folks - KJV, alcohol, and music are considered MAJOR issues.

 

[The Biblicist]

From DHK's post # 36
Some are so big on SEPARATION they even will separate from non Baptist churches over minor issues like the King James Version, alcohol, and or music.


However - to many of those folks - KJV, alcohol, and music are considered MAJOR issues.

A divisive attitude by the leadership of a church can make a relatively non-essential issue become an essential issue that divides a church. So any issue or any difference can be made essential to fellowship if a divisive attitude is present by leadership or by members.

However, there are things that the Scriptures place emphasis upon that ought to be issues that divide brethren from brethren. In 1 Cor. 5:11 it is a "brother" that is to be separated from who is characterized by the issues listed. In 2 Thes. 3:6 it is a "brother" who is to be withdrawn from which habitually continues in defiance against apostolic commands. In Matthew 18:15-20 it is a "brother" who is to be confronted and separated from or treated like a "heathen" or a "publican" in regard to fellowship.

There are issues that the scriptures clearly and explicitly demand are "must" issues (Jn. 3:3; 4:24; Rom. 13:5; 1 Tim. 3:7; etc.) or issues that are absolutely essential (Lk. 13:3,6; Gal. 1:8-9; 1 Jn. 1:1-6; etc.) which separation from a "brother" is necessary so that his leaven of false doctrine does not leaven the whole church (Rom. 16:17-18).

The gospel and gospel ordinances are definitely issues for breaking fellowship with other churches (Gal. 1:8-9). For two to walk together there must be essential issues of fellowship they share in common with each other (Eph. 4:4-7; Heb. 6:1-2; 1 Tim. 3:15-4:6; etc.).

We are not to fellowship with the world (system of thought and deeds that oppose God) and when churches embrace such a system into their beliefs and practices they too become objects that must be separated from or else your church will be leavened by that type of fellowship.

 

[Rebel]

That is what it was about. I have already posted in this thread concerning ecclesiastical separation. That is what the OP is about:

What makes you think it has nothing to do with church separation?

I didn't read the entire thread, just some posts later in the thread.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Some are so big on SEPARATION they even will separate from non Baptist churches over minor issues like the King James Version, alcohol, and or music. Personally I can't find this approach in scripture so why people still teach it is beyond me. I mean why do these separatists not learn how to read the bible for all its worth? Where does the bible say to separate from a brother who used the ESV and believes having a beverage here and there is okay? Do the separatists ever read the arguments for alcohol? The bible says a elder is to be above reproach and not given to TOO MUCH WINE indicating that he can have a drink sometimes.

This greatly puzzles me. I am open to debate with those holding this extreme view of 2nd or 3rd degree separation.

Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.