How far does "Restoration" allow?

A couple of thoughts:

Jesus didn't make Peter wait three years before he was restored to service and told to feed the sheep.

This pastor has way too much power if he can single-handedly fire the youth minister.

Les

 

So the issue is not really about restoration at all. It's about the Sr Pastor not wanting real life issues and real life struggles discussed with the youth of the church.

And we sit around wondering why young people are saying church is not relevant.

 

Thanks Martin. If it were in my power, and I could wave a magic wand that would reveal every thought, action, motive, and deed of a person before the world, I would take everyone of these people who want to make sins like this a life long sentence of others, parade them on stage for all the world to see, and analyze how "holy" they are for God's service. That goes double for you leaders of ministries and your so called Christ like qualities.

 

Exactly...

I wonder if Paul ever told others about his character before he was saved. Of course he did... or we couldn't read it today.

What about David.
What about Peter... and Christ told Peter specifically to feed the lambs... The youth.

This pastor is out of line, and is too powerful, only a church should decide who stays and who goes... whatever happened to congregational polity?

If I was youth pastor, I wouldn't want to stay in a church that gave that much power to one man. There are plenty of churches that needs good youth pastors. I would be looking for a good church.

Of course all of this is based on the OP, there may be more, but based on the OP, this is my opinion.

The church is a hospital for the spiritually sick, not a showcase for the saints... I forget who first said this, but it fits this scenario... We have too many pastors/preachers claiming sinlessness, and demanding worship.

We have got to get rid of these pharisees in our churches, or the youth will never show up!

 

So to jump way ahead in the thought, you must think something evil of the Law of God?

I have never seen where the Lord has said "example upon example, lesson upon lesson" but I have seen where He states "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little"

I don't know why the pastor set this young man down, that is probably just between this pastor and him.

To begin all this suspect attitude is very silly and there is no such thing as a "Christian Pharisee", nothing about Christ was Pharisaical!

We have a similar problem in our bus ministry where a man feels he's called to preach but is not faithful to church. He flipflops around alot here lately and still expects to have his turn preaching.

Efforts are being made to reconcile the situation with his being restored into fellowship FIRST! He has not been brought to any disciplinary action formerly, but he will not be preaching anytime soon. He first must be found faithful to have such a tremendous responsibility of preaching be put on him.

My best observation to the example placed before us is the young man should have spoken with this pastor before going into his testimony about how far into details he should go. I can only surmise that he must have given too much info, still, it is that pastor's decision and NOT some democratic process.

Would I have set him down? Yes, for giving too much detail. No, if he used Christain decency in relating his testimony.

BTW< all our examples in the Bible are for our admonition, not for our instruction in righteousness, that is where the precepts come in.

 

And you're a nut if you believe I don't!

Exactly as he should have done.

I don't, neither should you, but that doesn't change the Law of God in that "whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap". I am only looking at this from THAT Biblical perspective in he is reaping what he has sown. You're too liberal towards the position and relating it towards the person.

Position is far too important to allow a man's person to be alotted respect. God doesn't respect any man's person, so why are you? He didn't respect the person of Moses. He didn't respect the person of Abraham, but God did respect the honesty of Moses and the integrety of Abraham to excercise his faith.

It's ACTIONS that receiven a just recompense of reward, not because who a person is.

ok, that is probably why this man was asked to step down.

 

Jesus dealt with Peter repeatedly. Judgement came upon Peter and he wept bitterly. Peter was restored in the time the Lord knew would suffice. We are not in the position of God to make such a determination with any haste. Obviously you don't know much about pastoral authority or you don't have much respect for who the Lord placed in the position as pastor.

 

There are things done in private that are NOT to be spoken about:


Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.


Try learning more about the Bible next time.

 

I think you're placing much on this pastor without ever knowing him personally due to some bitterness you have.

I haven't seen one iota of this pastor claiming sinlessness, or anyone else in this discussion either.

Sin has a just recompense of reward, so does righteousness, but to deny that one will not reap what he has sown is anti-Biblical.

 

Problem is, Salamander, that porn is no longer private! You can find it just about everywhere, from the bookstore (and I don't mean adult) to the video store (I quit going to one because they couldn't seem to keep the porn out of the "family" aisles) to the TV set to the internet.

As far as the internet goes, porn is extremely easy to get into even when you aren't looking for it. I knew this and still got into stuff that couldn't be posted on this board while doing a google image search for what should have been an innocent subject.

We can't say that it is a shame to talk about porn because it is a secret because it simply is not secret. It'd be nice if it still were a shame and a secret, but the fact is that porn is out there and open and we must teach our young people about it's dangers and how to defend themselves from both the mental and physical aspects of it.

I can't fault this youth minister for teaching the young people in his group about how easy it is to fall into this lifestyle and how difficult it is to get out of it. The only fault I find, and thus the only reason he should be removed, is if there is any doubt as to whether he had conquered this very deep rooted problem.

 

Just wondering Salamander, how long is long enough for you for someone to be forgiven and be restored? Are you one of those forever people? Any planks in your eye?

 

I forgive before any request is made, just like i forgive your presumptuous sin.

You're judging me in error , friend. I only have shown that the Judgement of God on sin is never negated, if it were, this flesh would live forever.

 

His porn addiction was in secret until the Lord exposed it.

 

Okay wise guy, just exactly which sins are we not supposed to talk about? How about you try learning to put Scripture into context before spouting off. Why did you leave off verse 11? Eph 5:11 Don't participate in the fruitless works of darkness, but instead, expose them.

It's a shame you weren't around to rebuke Paul and Peter and Jude and John when they were so shameful as to discuss sex while writing Scripture.

 

Porn addiction isn't what we should call marital relations.

 

Huh??? Are you even in the same conversation as the rest of us?

 

It fits well within the definition of pornea

 

and this comes within a couple of posts of this statement, by you:

no need for formal introductions between pot and kettle...I'm sure they've met.

 

To use the verse Galatians 6:7 in reference to this Youth Pastors removal is poor exegesis and a misapplication.

What makes the position of Pastor in any form special is not what he does or how he lives but what makes it special is the call of God. We should all live pure and Holy lives. And Pastors should have a maturity above most others. But all men fail. What makes the situation with this Youth Pastor so full of integrity is that he took a private sin no one knew of and handled it to be come more pure and more Holy. He appears to initiated it and he did not hide iteven after the fact. That is integrity.

What makes his removal so unbiblical is that Romans 11:29 is still true today;
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ro 11:29 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/FONT]This Youth Pastors handling of this is above board and is reminiscent of a Psalm 51 attitude. To focus on his falure and to stop right there not giving due consideration to how he handled it is a standard no one can measure up to. For no Pastor is without his failures.

Again if what was described of this Youth Pastor is true he is a man of integrity and should be sought after to Pastor any youth.

 

I would add it seems that some folks are willing to reach all over the Bible to condemn failure of men and punish them. However,
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1Th 5:9[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,[/FONT]What we do face is chastisement for the purpose of bringing us back to God. But God's chastisement is all about restoration. But never wrath or punishment.