How far does "Restoration" allow?

I think your hair is stuck in your strings, again.

Porn is NOT decent to discuss in any detail. Porn is NOT under the guise of Holy Matrimony, it is solely derived from lust to cause LUST! Porn is considered an indecent act usually observed in private due to its shameful nature The looking at porn should be kept private due to its pornographic nature.

I can only say without reservation that the details of his porn addiction must have been alluded to with a certain picturesque view given to the hearers. That alone would cause his dismissal and anyone who objects is either a liberal or involved in the same addiction.

 

Sure it does, in what dictionary?

 

And good reason too. By experience I have learned to detect bitterness towards those in authority right off. It is manifested rebellion.

you're grasping into a very dark corner,friend, with your accusation.:tonofbricks:

 

You have based your entire comments on an appearance.

My experience with porn addiction is that one doesn't confess it until either caught or thinking they've been caught.

I agree with his integrity, but it can only be concluded, by first granting the pastor due respect for his position, that the young man must have used less than Christian decency in his testimony and was too graphic and caused the wrong pictures in the minds of the simple.

For anyone to say that his removal was un-Biblical is presumptuous without knowing the full details. Those full details have to be revealed by contact with this pastor and not the young man's friends.

I'll stand with the pastor anyday. I have too much experience in dealing with youth pastors to do otherwise.

 

Well I am not sure what your experience with porn is. But this is a broad paint brush you are maligning his character with. Since we do not know what brought about his conviction it is wise and in the spirit of 1 Cor 13 to assume the best of him rather than make judgmental assumptions based on a personal perception.

We can only speak to what is given in the op. No point in making speculation to anything else. In the op it is implied that he was removed for his past sin and for revealing it. To remove a Pastor for these issues is un-biblical.

Your comment on your experience in dealing with Youth Pastors comes across as if you think they should never be trusted. After looking at your posts over all you seem to have a problem with Youth Pastors in general. And the spirit of your posts in this thread is un-trusting, unforgiving and presumptuous. I do not say this with malice or hostility but with concern for such a position.

God Bless

 

What? Since when have I known this man or maligned his character?

Really? Just like you have done towards my person?

Would you be acting and without knowledge?

It seems you're more apt to be against his pastor, who we don't know and for a younger man who we don't know, and are siding with the younger and without the knowledge of God.

I speak from the perspective of a pastor who stands with pastors in general. I have only made a general assumption based upon what has been offered, so have you.

You said that with all the malice you deny. Grow up.

May the Lord Bless you

 

As have yours. You said earlier,

How did you determine all that based on the evidence given? I must have missed something.

Statistically accurate? Probably. But God can bring anyone to repentance. We shouldn't discount the chance that it was purely a God thing.

Once again...I don't think we have enough info to make this determination.

Well, you got the first half spot on...but the "truth" could lie with the pastor's account, the young man's, neither, or somewhere in between. We just don't know.

Ah, so now we understand. Sal, this is arrogant, even by your standards. So youth ministers are somehow lesser men of God in your book. Sad. Maybe one day you'll tell us why you have a disdain for youth ministers.

I guess it would disappoint you to know that I've gotten along with all 10 of my pastors in my 20 years of ministry. I got along with the ones that got fired, and the ones that are almost universally loved and respected. Sorry you've not had as good a luck. At least I hope it's from bad experience...I'd hate to think that you're just prejudicial.

I'd probably get along with you, if you were my pastor. Though I doubt you'd give me the same benefit, judging from your statements.

 

I'm not sure what you experience is, but I've seen about an equal share of good/lousy youth pastors and likewise for pastors. It seems many are coming at this from their own personal expereince. A lot of good youth pastors have dealth with a lot of garbage at the hands of a lousy pastor (been there). A lot of pastors have put up with all kinds of junk with a youth pastor (seen plenty of that).

Of course, in this situation we do not know all the details about what was said to the youth and what the pastor said when he dismissed the youth pastor. For that matter, we don't know what else might have been going on that lead to this.

We could see this as a heavy-handed pastor who did not respect the calling of his youth pastor. We could see this as a pastor who made a difficult decision regarding some inappropriate talk in front of the youth. Either way is speculation, but might be a good start for a discussion of what staff ministers expect from pastors and vice versa.

 

I based it all upon the fact the pastor asked the man to step down. I have no suspicion in this case other than the fact the pastor acted as he did.

God uses people to bring conviction to those who otherwise would continue in sin. Except Adam, God used prophets to bring Israel to repentence, for he had no other man but only God to confront him.

Knowing the Lord, I'd have to say that we do.

I can only expect that the Lord knew the deep root of lust that needed further dealing with. The church voted in a man they thought was fit to pastor, I can only say in hope they were spiritual enough to know the will of God for the church.

I believe the pastor had good reason due to the fact he knows that there would be detrimental consequences from the congregation if he acted hastily and without said good judgement.

You, sir, just concocted another lie.

I apologize for offering mostly negative experience about youth pastors, but I know more I highly respect than those who have had to be set down.

Brother Stacey Shifflet: Pastor of Pleasant View baptist Taylors, SC

Brother Thomas Satterfield: Assistant Pastor Canaan Baptist Covington, Ga

Brother Morris Mitchell: Pastor of Journey Baptist Covington, Ga

Brother Keith Everette: Pastor of Landmark Baptist Loganville, Ga

Brother Dwayne Earwood: Missionary to South Dakota

And these are just a few good men who have been in youth pastor positions and never gave their pastor a hardtime. I know quite a few more.

10??? in 20 years???? Lord, help us Jesus!!!!!

Maybe it's time you stop guessing about others and quit believing luck.

:laugh: May I recommend that you never speak to your pastor as you have me then?

I'm sure if we began a conversation of this nature with the understanding we'd both speak candidly and without hard feelings and just needed to hash some things out the Lord would receive honour and glory. Most of all we'd have a better understanding of each other: me in authority over you and I having respect for you in the same manner.

My relationship with the Lord doesn't hinge on others getting along with me who don't see proper judgement in the things of God.

It doesn't matter how mad or mean to me others have been, I still smile at them, shake their hand, tell them I love them and we can pray together at anytime. I can't say the same for them though, sadly.

I know many have spoken against my person for preaching the last 14 years. The devil said he would destroy me, BUT the LORD said He'd uphold me with His Omnipotent Hand!!!:godisgood:

 

I agree with 99% of what you just said, but I will still side with the pastor until proven different.

If anything, we have all been done an injustice to bring this to our attention without all the details.
Thanks, Dude.:1_grouphug:

 

I wouldn't go that far. The situation was put forth so that various suggestions could be made. We've certainly heard points of view from several angles, but we are limited in our knowledge of details, so we should probably avoid the personal attacks and judgments based on facts not in evidence.

I hope our brother from that "M" state has heard a few possibilities as to what is going on in this situation. Josh, maybe there'sa few more things to discuss with your friend?

This is about as good as a forum can do, we just need to be mindful our limitations.

 

Nasty dispositions are the norm here.

 

uh, I think you said the same exact thing but in alot more words.

maybe Josh needs a few things to consider himself: 1st, he brought this to a debate forum. 2nd, he has no business discussing something of this nature without involving all parties. 3rd, his disposition is typical of the carnal. it could be this is Josh all along and he's playing people to see who will be on his side? maybe it is his effort to heap to himself a teacher because his ears itch? I dunno, but the injustice is only amounting to more and more.

there is a prayer request forum in BB.

I used the :1_grouphug: to show a desire for untiy, but I see that cannot happen with people going around with a huge chip on their shoulder.:godisgood:

 

First of all, I included 2 interim pastors in the list, and 2 of my summer mission stints--at one of those 3 month stints, I had two pastors. So the other 18 or so years would be 5 pastors. Maybe you should think before you speak.

BTW, your "Lord, help us Jesus" comment sounds a bit like a vain usage of the name of God to me. Do you always throw around God's name like that?

Finally...you said...

If you're insulting my call to ministry in that statement...you owe me an apology. Moreover, if that was your intent, then you owe God an apology, because He called me. You didn't. If I misunderstood you, then I'm sorry. But I'm having trouble interpreting it any other way.

It seems that in most every thread you post in, you do your best to offend folks. Might I suggest a little humility and gentleness?

 

Salamander,
You know, from Galatians 5:22, there are nine fruits of the Spirit listed. It would seem that an individual without longsuffering, kindness, goodness, and gentleness, is reaching about half of them, and may need an attitude change, maybe others.

Now, if you have studied Baptist church government at all, then you would know that in most cases, the decision rests with the congregation.

Now I do not make one penny of my income from ministry, and certainly do not have a degree (in theology), but you are just flat wrong in all the points you made in this thread.

It also takes a lot of meaness to draw anger from a kind and gentle minister like Joshua Rhodes. Man, you got problems.

 

5 is still a high number.

Maybe you should offer more next time and I could think a little more in depth. If you're going to hide things from people don't react so harshly when they don't see everything you haven't revealed, it will at least make you appear a bit more mature.

Yes, just as David threw the Lord;s name around when he cried "O God! Thou art my God, early will I seek thee!"

If you're going to judge the intent of the heart, try using a little more discernment next time.

What??????????

You're awfully meanspirited, y'know?

You're the one who mentioned "luck" in the first place. Luck has absolutely NOTHING to do with the call of God. I owe neither God nor you an apology, so quit fishing for one.

I'm afraid you're too quick to judge and like to render things to your own appetite for contention.

BTW, will you mind getting back on topic, or is it your preference to continually pick fights with other members?:godisgood:

 

I believe you judge discerning the situation as meanness, which is wrong. I also believe Joshua isn't as kind and gentle as he or you'd like to believe, else he would have considered what was said in a debate forum as being a debate and not acted so rashly.

All I have done is consider what was offered in the OP and made my comments.

Church governement is just that, government. Government lead by the potentate/ pastor. This is a ministerial order decision and not a church government type of consideration.

If you want what the rest of the church has to say in regard to your comments about how this should have been handled, then bring on the congregation! Otherwise you need to speak fewer words and according to knowledge.

Why is it most of you are so quick to anger? Is it a spirituality problem?

I haven't gotten the least bit angry over this topic and cannot see anything that would provoke such a response from you people.

Seems more like you're ready to start stoning others verses discussing and asking questions with those you may have a misunderstanding. you then would fall under the subject of not judging lest ye be judged.

All I have done is surmise a decision to ask a man to step down from his position from what has been offered in view and total regard of a pastor protecting his flock as the undershepherd, and that without respect of any man's person or past. I only made the assumption for any pastor to ask some one to step down is that the pastor had ample reason to do so, with or without bringing it to a vote from the congregation.

I've never seen anywhere in the Bible where God brought in the democratic process to see whether or not His chosen leader could make such a decision.

If we're to look at the example of Aaron making the golden calf behind the back of Moses due to the democratic decision by the congregation as your remarks seem to suggest, I would have to say you're totally W_R_O_N_G!:tonofbricks:

 

So on one hand sal lectures the masses to not be so doggone judgemental.

He follows that up with judgemental statements.

No hypocrisy there.

 

I believe you'd best try the spirits before you make so hasty and rash statements in judging my person.

Your sarcasm reveals you.

BTW, your dog comment is considered profaining the name of the Lord by its being another form of .......:tear: