Bmerr,
I had a cold in the meantime. In my view you are quite persistent in adding one more condition ( knowledge) to Sola Fide, and I wonder whether it is the common or official stance of your church group. Roman Catholic values Baptism as Salvation. Now let's see your points:
bmerr said:
Eliyahu,
bmerr here. For one to have true, Biblical faith, he must know God's word, for "...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Rom 10:17). If one does not know God's word, he cannot know or do God's will. Only those who do the will of the Father will inherit the kingdom (Matt 7:21).
Faith comes by hearing, this is what I wanted to address to you.
Now you are obsessed by replacing it with Knowledge. If you said simply from the beginning" Hearing the Gospel" there would have been no argument. But you are persistantly replacing Hearing with Knowledge.
Hearing means actually Acceptance or Obedience.
If a person wants to be saved, he needs to know what God has said a person needs to do to be saved.
Yes, it doesn't mean that one need to study any theology!
In the case of Paul, he was only told to be baptized, since he had already believed in the risen Christ, repented of sins, and confessed Christ as Lord.
Yes, when did it happen? When did Paul call Jesus " Lord"?
In the case of the Pentecostians, they were told to "repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins", since they had already believed Peter's preaching of the gospel.
In their cases, they were the people who refused to believe Jesus as Messiah before, and therefore Peter preached in detail, and thereafter they believed the Gospel.
In the case of the Phillipian jailor, he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ", since he had not yet been presented with the gospel. If we read on past verse 31, we see that the word of the Lord was spoken to him, that he demonstrated repentance by washing Paul and Silas' stripes, and that he was baptized.
So, still are you claiming that Paul and Sila told him " Learn about Jesus Christ, Study about him with us at the class, thereafter you can believe, then you will be saved" ?
You sound like Salvation came from the good works of washing the wounds of Paul and Silas. Bible doesn't always say how the sinners believed. But in the meantime the jailor must have believed or confessed that he believed in Jesus. The others were the results of the faith.
I have never baptized an unbeliever. What would be the point? I have baptized believers who wanted to be saved, though.
In other words, you are confessing, that the people had become already believers, before you baptized them ! their oldmen died and newperson became alive, before Baptism.
Becoming a believer has nothing to do with Baptism, right?
Do you bury live men, or dead men? It is only when we are risen with Christ in baptism that we walk in newness of life (Rom 6:3-5).
You are right on this. We were already dead, before Baptism!
Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." in Mark 16:16. It would be hard to find a more easy to understand statement in all of the Bible. Jesus says that baptism comes before salvation. You say you were saved, and then baptized.
What if someone believed in Jesus but was not baptised, then will he not be saved?
The Robber at the Cross believed in Jesus, but was not baptized, then he was not saved?
1 Pet 3:21 says, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..." You said, "Baptism doesn't bring the salvation". You are at odds with the Scriptures.
I don't think Peter was focussing on the water baptism there. If someone was baptized without the spiritual conversion ( Baptism by Holy Spirit), it is meaningless as daily swiming or diving into water doesn't change one's spiritual status.
What Peter said there is apparently Spiritual Baptim by Holy Spirit or Spiritual Baptism by Holy Spirit plus Water Baptism. So, your argument is refuted.
The Bible says that baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), to wash away sins (Acts 22:16), where one is buried and risen with Christ (Col 2:12), where one puts on Christ (Gal 3:27), is how one gets into Christ (Rom 6:3-5), and that it "...doth also now save us..."
I already told you to read Acts 2:38 in Greek Text because there can be some misunderstanding.
Unto the forgiveness of sins, repent and let everyone of you be baptized, and you will receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
There is no rule that eis apesin hamartiown should be bound with repent only.
You already confessed that Paul must have believed before " baptize" was mentioned in Acts 22:16. Otherwise, was Anania commanding Paul to be baptized while he was not believing yet? Anania must have noticed that Paul was believing and had a faith already! Wash away thy sins, means that thy sins were forgiven already and therefore so that it may be officially declared as being washed away, you must be baptized and wash away thy sins!
Would you say that it is a "wrong, wrong, and wrong again, belief" for me to believe all of these things?
If you look at the Christian history, you can hardly find anyone who claim that one need a knowledge for the salvation, or that Salvation by Knowledge+ Faith.
What about the children in Matthew 18? Why did Jesus say that Kingdom of Heaven belongs to the people like kids? Becoming like children means gaining a lot of knowledge?
Acts 26:13-18 doesn't say anything about how or when Paul was saved.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; ...
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa,
I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
As I said, Paul called Jesus "Lord" ( 9:6)
What would you say Paul was asking when he asked, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?"
Do you know all of what you should do in the future?
I ask God everyday to guide me for the daily life. That's is the typical way of obedience by the true believers!
Are you ready to commit yourself to the great missionary immediately ? or would you say that I have to take care of my family and therefore I have to earn some money from a denomination and therefore I have to go to a college of theology or need a doctor degree first ?
I have not said that one must have a lot of knowledge plus baptism to be saved.
Good! I hope you will lift the ban of knowledge eventually.
No, he wasn't. That's why he asked what he was to do.
I have never indicated that Paul was saved while he was praying and fasting.
I'm not making the gospel difficult. What is so hard about belief, repentance, confession, and baptism? All of these things are plainly set forth in the NT.
Gospel is very simple and easy for everybody. Problem is that human beings always try to invent some way to make it difficult.
I'm just saying we should keep reading past 16:31 to see what happened next.
I am sure that Paul and Sila didn't add much knowledge, but what the Jailor saw( v 26, earthquake), which was the miracle, changed his mind already and believed immediately.
Go back to 16:12 where Paul and Silas come to Phillipi, reading through to 16:23, where we first find the jailor. As you read through the encounter from there, see if you can determine how much of the gospel the jailor knew at the point where he asked how to be saved.
you are working very hard to invent a new religion! based on Knowledge!
Scripture always said " Sola Fide, (Rom 1:17, Eph 2:8....)
Hear and Believe! ( Rom 10:17)
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, Sadducees, and many others, yet not all of these were saved. His speaking to Paul on the road to Damascus does not mean that Paul was saved.
In Christ,
bmerr
I hoped you know better than distinguishing the difference between His ministry on earth and His ministry after the resurrection in vision.
Did Jesus ever reveal Himself to Pharisees, Saduccees, Pilates on the road of Jerusalem after His resurrection and ascension?
Did Jesus appear to KIng Herod in vision? How many believers have seen Jesus in vision or on the road, while others could notice there is some strange event happening?
Jesus spoke to Paul and Paul called Him Lord ( before he was led to Damascus), and obeyed Him, his reaction was Trembling and Astonished. The people surrounding him could not hear the voice but Paul heard the Lord saying to him ( 22:9). Also, Anania recognized Paul as a believer already as he calls him " Brother Saul" even though it may apply to the typical Jewish bortherhood as well.
I already pointed out Mark 2:3-
5 When Jesus saw
their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son,
thy sins be forgiven thee.
Did Palsy have a lot of Knowledge? Did he know Trinity? Was he already baptized?
What about this verse?
Mt 9:
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort;
thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
You may want to add this way : Thy faith and lots of knowledge made thee whole!