How is salvation accomplished?

[Hope of Glory]

John 1:12 is talking about the power to become sons of God, not simply being born from above. John 3:3 does not say anything about being born again; it's born from above; it's talking about salvation. We're told simply to believe on the Lord Jesus and we will be saved. Salvation is from the Lord, not from anything on our part.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
John 1:12 is talking about the power to become sons of God, not simply being born from above. <snip>

Look again, friend. Those who received Christ and were given authority, power, right, privilege, to become sons of God, received Him because they were born not because of their blood (lineage or race), nor because of their desire to be born from above (will of the flesh), nor because of any man's will that they be born (false teachings included here, I suppose), but because of God's will.

So you can have no power to be a son of God (in Christ, of course) unless God willed for you to be born from above, and God will only will you to be born of God, if you are one of His own, chosen in Christ, from eternity past.

 

[Hope of Glory]

And God wishes for all men to be saved. But, not everyone who is saved will become a son of God. Son-ship is position, not simply familial relation.

 

[Linda64]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
Salvation is an event; justification is a process. We're all, each and every one of us, a sinner; that doesn't make us unsaved.

Apparently, the Philippian jailor was not saved. He was simply told to believe (punctiliar action) on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. They apparently forgot to tell him all that other stuff. Poor guy.

Justification is NOT a process. Justification means to "declare righteous". Justification is God's declaration that those who trust Jesus Christ are perfectly righteous before Him. It is a legal concept, as when a judge gives a verdict. God is the great Judge. Justification is God imputing to the believing sinner the very righteousness of Jesus Christ (2Co 5:21; Ro 4:4-6). Justification is through faith in Christ (Ro 3:25-28; 4:3-6; 5:1). Man's part in justification is to repent of his sin and to trust Jesus Christ. (Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible: David Cloud)

What do you mean by the Philippian jailor was not saved? Did the Apostle Paul tell the Philippian jailor how to be saved? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be SAVED, and thy house". (Acts 16:31) When you read on you will find that Paul preached the Word of the Lord to all that were in the Philippian jailor's house and they ALL believed, were baptized and rejoiced believing in God. Therefore, the Philippian jailor and ALL his house were saved!

1. Philippian jailor ASKED Paul (what must I do to be saved). (Acts 16:30)
2. Paul ANSWERED (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy house). (Acts 16:31)
3. Paul PREACHED the Word of the Lord to the entire household. (Acts 16:32)
4. The Philippian jailor and his household BELIEVED, were BAPTIZED, and REJOICED in the Lord.
(Acts 16:33-34)

And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house. (Acts 16:32-34)

It sure looks like Paul told the Philippian jailor and that entire household how to be saved when he preached the Word of the Lord to them all---so how can you possibly say that the Philippian jailor was not saved--unless you believe that the Paul didn't preach the whole counsel of God?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
And God wishes for all men to be saved. But, not everyone who is saved will become a son of God. Son-ship is position, not simply familial relation.

Wish. There's that word again. Nothing personal, but I hate that word everytime it is used in connection with God.

A wish is a longing, a desire the fulfillment of which is generally dependent on other factors, and often something not within reach of the wisher.

Example: I wish you good luck. I wish you a good night. I wish you good health. I wish you the best. I wish you'd go away.

How could God be God if there is anything too hard for Him ?

The Bible says He does what He will in the armies of heaven and of earth. The Bible says that by simply speaking, He made all these things around us to exist.

The ever expanding universe, the galaxies, stars, suns, moons, within that universe. The earth and its complex creatures.

He never wished they would exist. He MADE them exist.

And the most impossible thing in the entire universe, that of the ability to bring dirty, fallen, miserable, unholy sinners into His holy, upright, wonderful presence He accomplished ALONE.

IF He wanted ALL men to be saved, ALL men WILL be saved, because He wants them to be saved.

IF the will of man, who could not even get himself out of the mess he is in, could somehow withstand the purposes of God for him, then I guess it's time to start looking for another God.

 

[Linda64]

rozy said:

...unbelievable

John

3:

16

Simple

AMEN rozy!! Salvation is so simple.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

 

[Linda64]

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
...... not everyone who is saved will become a son of God. Son-ship is position, not simply familial relation.

I missed that one. "Not everyone who is saved will become a son of God". That's a strange doctrine.

I know that 'not everyone who is saved, will be in gospel obedience', that 'not everyone who is saved will be members of a gospel church'.

I know that 'not everyone who is saved will hear, obey, and understand the gospel'. That 'not everyone who is saved will even know the name Jesus Christ, or hear it spoken by human lips'.

But, 'not everyone who is saved will become sons of God' ? That is really a strange one.

Sonship is both familial and positional.

Familial, according to the Lord Jesus Himself:

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven,........

Positional, according to Rmans 8:14-17

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Pray tell, enlighten us on your doctrine.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

pinoybaptist:not everyone who is saved will even know the name Jesus Christ, or hear it spoken by human lips

Now I am wondering... Jesus said in John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And Paul wrote... That whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:8 - 10 declare...
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

and Romans 10:14...

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

How can one be saved without even knowing the name of Jesus Christ? And how can one be saved without even hearing his name?

I await your answer.

 

[Helen]

Paul answers that himself in the following verses. Please don't exclude them, standingfirminChrist.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Paul affirms that Christ is found by people who sought Him not. But Paul stills says that they had to call on Him.

The reason that Christ is found by people who did not find Him is because Christ is carried to them by other believers.

They still have to hear the Word, and in faith call out to Him

 

[Helen]

You are avoiding how Paul answered his own question in Romans...

 

[webdog]

The reason that Christ is found by people who did not find Him is because Christ is carried to them by other believers.

The text does not say this is the only way...Revelation 14:6 shows that angels can proclaim the Gospel message, too.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Usage Note: Wish is widely used as a polite substitute for want with infinitives: Do you wish to sit at a table on the terrace? Anyone who wishes to may leave now. This usage is appropriate for formal style, where it is natural to treat the desires of others with exaggerated deference. The corresponding use of wish with a noun-phrase object is less frequent: Anyone who wishes an aisle seat should see an attendant. Both usages are likely to sound stilted in informal style, however, and want may be substituted for wish. ·A traditional rule requires the use of were rather than was in a contrary-to-fact statement that follows wish: I wish I were (not was) lighter on my feet. While many people continue to insist on upholding this rule, the indicative was in such clauses can be found in the works of many well-known writers.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. [Justify is durative; it's ongoing; it's a present, active, participle, used as a noun.]

Romans 3:21-31 sets out his plan for justification. [In verse 30, "justify" is future, active, indicative.]

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [Once again, justify is durative; it's a process.]

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. [Justify is once again durative; it's a present, active, indicative; it's a process.]

However, Acts 16:31, which is referring to spiritual salvation, simply says, "Believe [aorist; punctiliar, not durative] on the Lord Jesus, and you will [not may; future, passive, indicative] be saved." Salvation is an event. You believe, and you will be saved.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. You have to do something to become a son; you don't have to do anything to become a child. When you're born from above, you are a child of God. You have to be led by the Spirit; you have to be obedient to be a son.

For a good study on the different words for "child" and the importance of each, click the following linkl. There, you may either download a transcribed study or an mp3 or both: Children of God

It's not a strange doctrine when you look at it from Scriptures. It is a strange doctrine if you simply listen to the teaching of men, who often don't discern differences that the Holy Spirit deemed important.