Bumped for Poncho
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How is your life impacted by the FIAT money system
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Bumped for Poncho
poncho
Well-Known Member
Been having some trouble with my hip lately. 15 or 20 minutes at the desk is about all I'm good for right now.
But I did find an informative article you're welcome to look over while I'm on the mend. :smilewinkgrin:
According to the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government, which is an official United States government report, the total liabilities of the United States government, including future social security and medicare payments that the U.S. government is already committed to pay out, now exceed 65 TRILLION dollars. This amount is more than the entire GDP of the whole world.
In fact, there are other authors who have written that the actual figure for the future liabilities of the U.S. government should be much higher, but let's be conservative and go with 65 trillion for now.
So, if the U.S. government took control of all physical assets in the United States and sold them off, it could not even make enough money to pay for everything that the U.S. government is already on the hook for.
Ouch.
The "hook" was set in 1913.
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I think he's talking about the fact that so many of our tax dollars are devoted to backing the Fed and bailing out banks (which is not legal nor constitutional), not that there -is- tax.
A single fact that shows that the current system is unsustainable is 'sales tax' and how it's been raised time after time. Back in the early 70's sales tax was 3% here in Iowa, now it's am amazing 7%. Don't make the mistake of saying it's inflation, because it's PERCENTAGES, not base price.
I've got so many friends that just sluff off the increases because of inflation and don't take the time to bother with really -thinking- about what they're saying. It's maddening.
Read the link that was posted earlier: http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/greenspan.html - It's amazing and most people refuse to acknowledge what's going on.
ETA: Ah! I see Poncho replied! Yay!
Get well, Poncho!
400 Million people in the US.
65,000,000,000,000 / 400,000,000 =
65,000,000 / 400 =
650,000 / 4 =
162,500
$162,500 for every single man, woman and child in the US. Wow. That means that for my family I'm on the hook for just shy of $1 Million!
Generally speaking Financially it isn't as long as:
One keeps up or ahead of the rate of inflation with raises or Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA)
AND
Money for savings is invested with a resultant return rate greater than the rate of inflation to preserve it's buying power.
There are other factors.
HankD
Again - not looking for articles...
I'm looking for real examples from your own personal life.'
You are the one who claims to have lost freedoms because of the fiat money system.
How about a couple of real and personal examples of freedoms that you personally have lost due to a fiat money system?
This really shouldn't be so hard for you.
poncho
Well-Known Member
I don't remember making any such claim in the thread you are refering too Targus. I remember starting a thread entitled . . ."is America really free?" (If A Privately-Owned Central Bank Controls Our Currency And Runs Our Economy?)though.
You said in post #39 "Because you started this thread lamenting your lost freedoms - it is your responsibilty to at least tell us what freedoms are being denied to you."
The thread was about America not me. You did your level best to make it about me though. How about asking me a pertinent question? Like one that has something to do with the subject matter?
I went back through that thread and all I found was me standing up for my country and you asking me the same impertinent question over and over. I don't feel all that obligated to anwser impertinent questions or play along with your little game. So, I refuse to answer your impertintent question, is that plain enough for you?
Here's a question you asked me that I will answer though.
You said "Why? Because as the expert in this area holding a special knowledge that the rest of us lack you have an obligation to save us from our ignorance."
First of all Targus, all the knowledge I have on this subject is common knowlegde. There's nothing special about it. I do feel a certain obligation to point out this common knowledge to others like yourself who might otherwise live your entire life in ignorance of this very very very well documented common knowledge.
Two things have become quite apparent to me while we've been having our little chat. First, your ignorance on this subject is self induced and self sustaining, and second as you so eloquently stated it below you "don't care what others do to manipulate the money system."
You said,
"Who is controlling my life? I don't care what others do to manipulate the money system (or whatever it is that you think keeps you under the control of a handful of men)."
If you don't care that others manipulate the money system you must not care about all those who are injured by it either. I do care. That's the difference. I care about my country and it's people and how a private interest manipulates the system and robs people (like your kids and grandkids) of their labor and property.
Evidently you do not. Evidently I care more about your kids and grandkids future than you do. But then you do enjoy a "relatively affluent lifestyle" (your words) so why would you care, mmmm? You got your's so let the rest eat cake.
Where's that shaking head in disbelief smiley when you really need it?
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poncho
Well-Known Member
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No - I simply asked for personal examples of how the fiat money system effects you.
You have none.
What else is there to handle?
I trust that you are doing better ?
poncho
Well-Known Member
Just so everyone else here knows I'm going to try to put this as nicely as I can.
A PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL HAS DEVALUED THE DOLLAR 96% SINCE 1913!!!
How does that not effect me???
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE AT THIS POINT TO PAY OFF THE NATIONAL DEBT!!!
How does that not effect me???
BECAUSE WE ARE SO INDEBTED TO THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL TAXES AND INTEREST RATES WILL HAVE TO BE RAISED!!!
How does that not effect me???
EVERYTIME THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL PRINTS MORE MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR MY MONEY LOSES MORE VALUE!!!
How does that not effect me???
ANY SAVINGS I MIGHT HAVE LOSES MORE OF IT'S VALUE!!!
How does that not effect me???
ANY EQUITY I MIGHT HAVE BUILT UP IS ALSO BEING DEVALUED!!!
How does that not effect me???
I HAVE TO WORK HARDER AND PAY MORE FOR EVERYTHING BECAUSE MY MONEY IS BEING DEVALUED MORE EVERYDAY!!!
How does that not effect me???
THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL LOST IT'S SHIRT PLAYING FAST AND LOOSE AND WE THE PEOPLE WERE FORCED UNDER THREAT OF TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE TO BAIL THEM OUT TO THE TUNE OF HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS WHEN 90% OF THE PEOPLE SAID NO BAILOUT LET THEM FAIL!!!
How does that not effect me???
My last nerve speaketh. "What's your problem anyway, is stupid an act with you or is it for real???" This is all stuff you should know already without being told.
Sheesh! Go get an education on the Federal Reserve and basic economics will ya everything I've told you in these two threads is common knowledge but not only that it's common sense!!!. And There's plenty of COMMON KNOWLEDGE about this subject to be found out there. Common sense is a rare creature out there though apparently. :BangHead:
Not all of us "enjoy a relatively affluent lifestyle" so we can't afford to be ignorant about the devaluation of our money, the theft of our labor and our property. Some of us are forced to pay attention to this issue because that is all we can afford to do now! But not only that some of us actually love our children and would like to see them born debt free instead of starting life out $150, 000 or more in debt to a PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL before they even have a chance to wear their first diaper!!!
The fiat money system effects people by putting them thousands of fiat dollars into debt before they are even born!!!
Now, what's so hard to understand about that??? Does that answer your question? Not like the answer wasn't right in front of you all the time or anything. :tonofbricks:
Yeah thanks for asking.
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BECAUSE WE ARE SO INDEBTED TO THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL TAXES AND INTEREST RATES WILL HAVE TO BE RAISED!!!
If we brought the troops home the savings would pay off the national debt.
I would like for interest rates to be raised.
EVERYTIME THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL PRINTS MORE MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR MY MONEY LOSES MORE VALUE!!!
I'm beating the cost of living.
ANY SAVINGS I MIGHT HAVE LOSES MORE OF IT'S VALUE!!!
My bank account is for convenience, not investing.
ANY EQUITY I MIGHT HAVE BUILT UP IS ALSO BEING DEVALUED!!!
Equity in what? My house is the place where I live, not an investment.
I HAVE TO WORK HARDER AND PAY MORE FOR EVERYTHING BECAUSE MY MONEY IS BEING DEVALUED MORE EVERYDAY!!!
Been retired for 14 year. Get cost of living raises.
THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL LOST IT'S SHIRT PLAYING FAST AND LOOSE AND WE THE PEOPLE WERE FORCED UNDER THREAT OF TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE TO BAIL THEM OUT TO THE TUNE OF HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS WHEN 90% OF THE PEOPLE SAID NO BAILOUT LET THEM FAIL!!!
Maybe. I think everything went according to their plan.
If we brought the troops home the savings would pay off the national debt.
I would like for interest rates to be raised.
EVERYTIME THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL PRINTS MORE MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR MY MONEY LOSES MORE VALUE!!!
I'm beating the cost of living.
ANY SAVINGS I MIGHT HAVE LOSES MORE OF IT'S VALUE!!!
My bank account is for convenience, not investing.
ANY EQUITY I MIGHT HAVE BUILT UP IS ALSO BEING DEVALUED!!!
Equity in what? My house is the place where I live, not an investment.
I HAVE TO WORK HARDER AND PAY MORE FOR EVERYTHING BECAUSE MY MONEY IS BEING DEVALUED MORE EVERYDAY!!!
Been retired for 14 year. Get cost of living raises.
THIS PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL LOST IT'S SHIRT PLAYING FAST AND LOOSE AND WE THE PEOPLE WERE FORCED UNDER THREAT OF TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE TO BAIL THEM OUT TO THE TUNE OF HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS WHEN 90% OF THE PEOPLE SAID NO BAILOUT LET THEM FAIL!!!
Maybe. I think everything went according to their plan.
If money is not diluted, it IS a store of value. I should be able to save money for a rainy day without the government stealing my purchasing power from me by force through taxation and inflation. I should be able to take that money when I need to spend it and buy things tomorrow just as I can today. In fact, if society is allowed to progress properly through innovation to make goods and services more readily available, my spending money in the future would actually buy more.
Of course, the Keynesians would argue that if this were allowed to be the case, a depressionary "death spiral" would occur because people would refuse to spend money if prices continued to come down. This argument is nonsense because people will always need to buy food and other essentials. If prices come down, people can afford to buy more things AND have money left to save to spend in the future. Prices falling would be the result of continued progress caused by investing. If a so-called depression occurred, the supply of goods and services would dwindle, eventually leading to a stop in falling prices. Those who had capital from savings would then have to invest to raise their own standard of living, causing more natural economic prime pumping.
Money is whatever fungible, utilizable, stable, and relatively scarce commodity the market determines is fit as a medium of exchange.
A government can force people to accept worthless paper as money, but when the government fails to keep its stock stable, the market reflects the waning distrust. Rising prices on any good or service is an inevitable consequence of an increase in the supply of money.
One of the stated objectives of the Federal Reserve is to maintain price stability. Given that an ounce of gold was approximately $20 for most of American history and has skyrocketed to $2000 demonstrates just how much the Fed has failed in its stated goal.
Being an Austrian economist rather than a monetarist, I would say that we don't need an arbiter of monetary policy. Let the free market determine what works as money just as the free market determines what works as goods and services. Money is simply another good. If the exchange of money causes investments that cause increases in productivity yielding greater supplies of goods and services, let the prices of these goods and services come down to reflect progress. No need to intervene by diluting the value of money to keep prices "stable."
It doesn't.
However, sound money forces the government to raise taxes directly so that they are readily seen in individual pay stubs rather than through federal balance sheets and inflationary rises in prices.
The government prefers to hide their taxation through spending programs that sound like pink unicorns frolicking on clouds and rainbows. They can debase the currency through deficit spending and blame "corporate greed" for the effects they cause through rising prices. Such policies of fiat money, inflation, and blame on "greedy" merchants are prevalent throughout history. See Diocletian as one of many examples.
If there are to be taxes (meaning anything that the government spends), they should be blatant and metric so that the people can be informed, protest them, and hold them in check.