And it ties that reigning to Jesus here upon the earth, not while in heaven!
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How many here hold to Full preterism
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Agreed
Yep. Seems kind of looney toons to think it has.
While the Revelation has its share of symbolism, it's easily interpreted, through other Scriptures, as well as Jesus or an angel's explaining some of it, such as in Rev. 17.
Speaking of Rev. 17, some prets are silly enough to believe the angel was deciphering the symbolism of the vision with MORE symbolism !
Sportzz Fanzz, symbolism in Scripture ALWAYS represents something literal ! Otherwise, men could make it mean anything they want. Some men try that, anyway.
And Jesus was speaking LITERALLY in Matt. 24 & Luke 21. The temple was destroyed & disassembled as he said, & the "days of vengeance" fell on that generation of Jews, as He said. No reason to believe that the rest won't occur, precisely as Jesus said! But it's obvious the rest of the events he then prophesied have NOT yet occurred ! And the prophesied events of the great trib, spelled out in Revelation have certainly not yet occurred, nor has Jesus' return, which will be seen by ALL.
Speaking of Rev. 17, some prets are silly enough to believe the angel was deciphering the symbolism of the vision with MORE symbolism !
Sportzz Fanzz, symbolism in Scripture ALWAYS represents something literal ! Otherwise, men could make it mean anything they want. Some men try that, anyway.
And Jesus was speaking LITERALLY in Matt. 24 & Luke 21. The temple was destroyed & disassembled as he said, & the "days of vengeance" fell on that generation of Jews, as He said. No reason to believe that the rest won't occur, precisely as Jesus said! But it's obvious the rest of the events he then prophesied have NOT yet occurred ! And the prophesied events of the great trib, spelled out in Revelation have certainly not yet occurred, nor has Jesus' return, which will be seen by ALL.
Scary to think that what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany less than what end times will be like under Antichrist!
I guess you never read about Noah's flood.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Don't be ridiculous. OBVIOUSLY I was speaking about since the writing of Revelation.
Futurists often point to Matthew 24:21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be", arguing the tribulation around 70 AD is not the worst there has been. They believe their view of view of destruction in Revelation will be the worst since the beginning of the world. So, no, it's not obvious you were speaking of since the writing of Revelation. But, it is obvious that nothing in Revelation will result in such a proportion of destruction of human life as the Flood.
Revelation is symbolic. It can't be taken literally. And, no one should attempt to take it literally. Revelation says a third of the stars were cast down to earth. If that were literal, the Earth would be completely destroyed. Yet, Revelation continues without notice of the Earth's destruction, nor any notice of the slightest physical damage from those billions and billions of stars cast down to Earth. Indeed, Revelation proceeds to treat the stars being thrown down as symbolic of Satan's angels being thrown down.
Further, the context of the stars being thrown down implies the events happened before Christ, not after Revelation was written. We are told that Satan, who was cast down with those fallen angels, has been "conquered" "by the blood of the Lamb." That lamb being slain is not a future event, don't you agree?
To answer your argument, I don't take Revelation to be speaking of physical damage. If I broke a fingernail, it would be worse physical destruction than most of what Revelation speaks of.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
There are both literal and symbolic parts to Revelation.
What destruction revealed should I take literally, and why?
Oh the joy of dismissing arguments that refute you by waving your hand with empty one-liners.
I suggest that the point of the OP is whether OT prophecy was fulfilled in & by the Lord Jesus Christ & the New Covenant Gospel, & the AD 70 destruction of those who rejected their Messiah & his New Covenant.
We can further study the language of NC prophecy in terms of similarly worded OC prophecy AND ITS FULFILMENT IN HISTORY.
Joseph had a dream where he saw his brothers as stars -
It will be instructive to study all the occasions where "stars" appear in Scripture. Note how often "stars" is a reference to Israel. Note also where the references is to "angels" where in context Elders aka Gospel preachers are intended.
Other use of stars as symbols include graven images & times of judgement.
We can further study the language of NC prophecy in terms of similarly worded OC prophecy AND ITS FULFILMENT IN HISTORY.
Joseph had a dream where he saw his brothers as stars -
Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
It will be instructive to study all the occasions where "stars" appear in Scripture. Note how often "stars" is a reference to Israel. Note also where the references is to "angels" where in context Elders aka Gospel preachers are intended.
Other use of stars as symbols include graven images & times of judgement.
When did the saved in Christ rise up and become glorified in 70 Ad?It must have been an invisible returning, ala JW!
Key is did the Second Coming happen or not then?
Jesus, in his sermon on the Tribulation, said nothing you speak of. He did say the Temple would be destroyed. In fact, it was 70 AD.
Did he return again at that time?
Figuratively, yes, in the same way the OT speaks of the Lord's coming to judge nations before Christ. An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt; and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence... His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.... Behold, he comes up like clouds; his chariots like the whirlwind; his horses are swifter than eagles— woe to us, for we are ruined!
How you reject the established Old Testament symbols and the obvious idiomatic nature of "coming on the clouds" when Jesus is speaking about about the destruction of Jerusalem?
The sermon Jesus delivered about about the Tribulation is all bout the destruction of the Temple that stood in Jesus' day. Futurism is indefensible and has no place in the Church.