How many here hold to The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints

[Martin Marprelate]

There were others who traveled with Christian who arrived at the Celestial City when they departed from Christian’s journey as martyrs. But because it is Christian’s journey, the continuity of the story is written for his perspective. I don’t know if I remember some explanation or if I am remembering it into the story, but nobody enters exactly the same way (comes through life the same way). Bunyan doesn’t make everyone cross death at the same point.
It is one of those points in an allegory that must be understood. Analogy is never perfect.

In other words, once beyond the Cross, it is a guarantee that any traveler who has come by the way of the Cross will get to the Celestial City. But the characters in Vanity Fair are not on their way to the celestial city. The cross would be a different location in each of their lives as would be their crossing over.

My take. I never ran it past Bunyan.

Acts 14:22. 'We must, through many tribulations, enter the kingdom of God.' Pilgrim's path led him through Bypath Meadow into Doubting Castle and giant Despair. He also had to pass the blandishments of Vanity Fair. The Christian, by God's grace, will persevere, but it is also necessary that he does.

I also read "The Holy War" by Bunyan (again years ago). It is equally as well done. It was a great read, no less quality as "Pilgrim's Progress."
Anyone else read it? (don't want to hijack the thread though).

Yes, I read it some years back; excellent book as are all Bunyan's works.
Grace abounding to the Chief of Sinners is his autobiography. Other great titles are The Intercession of Christ and Come and welcome to the Lord Jesus Christ. Was that last book really written by a Calvinist? Yes it was!
There are also, The Life and Death of Mr Badman, The Heavenly Footman and The Acceptable sacrifice. All excellent books and available at low prices in paperback.

 

[Silverhair]

Preservation, not perseverance.

What we find in scripture is that those the persevere in trusting in Christ Jesus even through trials and persecution will be saved those that do not will be lost.

Mar_13:13, Rom 2:6-7, Rom_8:25, 1Co_10:13, 2Th_1:4, Rev_2:10

 

[Paleouss]

Which is not quite the same as "once saved always saved"

IMO, I agree. Some, like myself, think OSAS is not the same thing as Perseverance of the Saints. However, many times people see no difference. Which is unfortunate, imo.

To me, Perseverance of the Saints is strictly a Calvinistic doctrine that follows from the theology that the saints were chosen before the foundation of the world. More accurately, that the saints are the first intention in the decrees of God (i.e., Superlapsarianism). Logic would seem to dictate that one cannot lose their salvation if one is already chosen to be saved (so it goes). The problem is with the Superlapsarian model.

On the other hand, some people intend OSAS to mean that after one accepts Christ into their heart and "believes" there is a point were we are reborn of the Spirit. Made a new man by God. We are now His sheep, adopted into His family where no one can pluck Him from His hand. This focuses on the temporal point of God's work that saves.

I think both sides have good verses that need attention, prayer and thought. Personally, I do believe in OSAS. Just not the Calvinistic Superlapsarian formulation of it. I also believe that some of the caution verses are genuine. The flash point for me is the "when" are you actually saved.

I find 2 Corinthians interesting...
(2Cor 13:5 ESV) 5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Here in 2 Corinthians, Paul is speaking to those who think they are in God's family. They all are professed Christians, it is presumed. But Paul suggests in the last part of the verse..."unless indeed you fail to meet the test". In other words, test yourselves and see if you are actually saved. Because...maybe you are not.

Peace to you brothers

 

[Ascetic X]

I find 2 Corinthians interesting...
(2Cor 13:5 ESV) 5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Here in 2 Corinthians, Paul is speaking to those who think they are in God's family. They all are professed Christians, it is presumed. But Paul suggests in the last part of the verse..."unless indeed you fail to meet the test". In other words, test yourselves and see if you are actually saved. Because...maybe you are not.

I wonder how many of us have seriously examined the true state of our souls. As long as we remain smug, complacent, and sure of our salvation, without closely inspecting our lives, we could be headed for hell.

 

[37818]

I wonder how many of us have seriously examined the true state of our souls. As long as we remain smug, complacent, and sure of our salvation, without closely inspecting our lives, we could be headed for hell.

Titus 1:2, In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; . . . .

1 John 5:9-13, If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[Silverhair]

We have the preservation of our souls through faith in Jesus Christ as long as we persevere in our faith in Jesus Christ.