How many here hold to the heresy of Pelagianism

[Yeshua1]

As the Historical Church always has condemned that view as being a heresy!

 

[Van]

The idea a person must do works to sustain his or her salvation is heresy, and the idea the Fall did not result in all mankind being made sinners with a corrupted heart is heresy. So this thread should be considered hiding one heresy with another.

 

[rlvaughn]

It would be well to define what you mean by Pelagianism. I have a description HERE, but perhaps you have your own elsewhere.

I consider Pelagianism a heresy. I have never met anyone who admits to holding such a view, though.

 

[Van]

"On account of these doctrines, which clearly contain the quintessence of Pelagianism:

1. The whole human race neither dies through Adam's sin or death, nor rises again through the resurrection of Christ.
2. The (Mosaic Law) is as good a guide to heaven as the Gospel.
3. Even before the advent of Christ there were men who were without sin.
4. Even if Adam had not sinned, he would have died.
5. Adam's sin harmed only himself, not the human race.
6. Children just born are in the same state as Adam before his fall." (From New Advent site)

Obviously Pelagianism actually does not include the Calvinist claim, which is to alter the definition of Pelagianism to mean non-Calvinistic views. It is a worn out ploy used over and over by Calvinists on this board.

 

[rsr]

I consider Pelagianism a heresy. I have never met anyone who admits to holding such a view, though.

Exactly.

I've read several theologians who posit that semiPelagianism is the default religion of American Christians, and I tend to believe it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly.

I've read several theologians who posit that semiPelagianism is the default religion of American Christians, and I tend to believe it.

To deny that we have a fallen sin nature, that the fall did not alter our free will at all is that heresy!

 

[Yeshua1]

It would be well to define what you mean by Pelagianism. I have a description HERE, but perhaps you have your own elsewhere.

I consider Pelagianism a heresy. I have never met anyone who admits to holding such a view, though.

It would be seen as being those who hold that we can still free will respond to the Gospel apart from God!

 

[Van]

"On account of these doctrines, which clearly contain the quintessence of Pelagianism:
The whole human race neither dies through Adam's sin or death, nor rises again through the resurrection of Christ.

1. The (Mosaic Law) is as good a guide to heaven as the Gospel.
2. Even before the advent of Christ there were men who were without sin.
3. Even if Adam had not sinned, he would have died.
4. Adam's sin harmed only himself, not the human race.
5. The whole human race neither dies through Adam's sin or death, nor rises again through the resurrection of Christ.
   
6. Children just born are in the same state as Adam before his fall." (From New Advent site)

Obviously Pelagianism actually does not include the Calvinist claim, which is to alter the definition of Pelagianism to mean non-Calvinistic views. It is a worn out ploy used over and over by Calvinists on this board.

"The term "semipelagianism", a 16th-century coinage, has been used as an accusation in theological disputes over salvation, divine grace and free will. Theologians have also used it retrospectively to refer to the original formulation, an anachronistic use that has been called inappropriate, ambiguous and unjust." (Wikipedia)

 

[Yeshua1]

"On account of these doctrines, which clearly contain the quintessence of Pelagianism:
The whole human race neither dies through Adam's sin or death, nor rises again through the resurrection of Christ.

1. The (Mosaic Law) is as good a guide to heaven as the Gospel.
2. Even before the advent of Christ there were men who were without sin.
3. Even if Adam had not sinned, he would have died.
4. Adam's sin harmed only himself, not the human race.
5. The whole human race neither dies through Adam's sin or death, nor rises again through the resurrection of Christ.
   
6. Children just born are in the same state as Adam before his fall." (From New Advent site)

Obviously Pelagianism actually does not include the Calvinist claim, which is to alter the definition of Pelagianism to mean non-Calvinistic views. It is a worn out ploy used over and over by Calvinists on this board.

"The term "semipelagianism", a 16th-century coinage, has been used as an accusation in theological disputes over salvation, divine grace and free will. Theologians have also used it retrospectively to refer to the original formulation, an anachronistic use that has been called inappropriate, ambiguous and unjust." (Wikipedia)

We Calvinists just would say that this view seems to be the popular one in modern American Christianity so called!

 

[Van]

We Calvinists just would say that this view seems to be the popular one in modern American Christianity so called!

Thus guilty as charged

"The term "semipelagianism", a 16th-century coinage, has been used as an accusation in theological disputes over salvation, divine grace and free will. Theologians have also used it retrospectively to refer to the original formulation, an anachronistic use that has been called inappropriate, ambiguous and unjust." (Wikipedia)​

 

[Yeshua1]

Thus guilty as charged

"The term "semipelagianism", a 16th-century coinage, has been used as an accusation in theological disputes over salvation, divine grace and free will. Theologians have also used it retrospectively to refer to the original formulation, an anachronistic use that has been called inappropriate, ambiguous and unjust." (Wikipedia)​

You are claiming to be one then?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You are claiming to be one then?

One what?

 

[Yeshua1]

Some

One what?

Someone holding to that Pel view?

 

[MartyF]

As the Historical Church always has condemned that view as being a heresy!

Define Pelagianism.

Pelagius believed in Believer's Baptism, why Augustine did not.

So, I guess you and rlvaughn are lying about being Baptist?

Or can you give your own clear and concise definition like I did?

 

[rlvaughn]

Define Pelagianism.

Pelagius believed in Believer's Baptism, why Augustine did not.

So, I guess you and rlvaughn are lying about being Baptist?

Or can you give your own clear and concise definition like I did?

I'm confused. I have not written anything in regard to Pelagius, Augustine, and baptism/Baptists. Not sure what you are referencing?

Further, I am not seeing where you give a definition of Pelagianism. Where can I look? Thanks.

 

[MartyF]

I'm confused. I have not written anything in regard to Pelagius, Augustine, and baptism/Baptists. Not sure what you are referencing?

Further, I am not seeing where you give a definition of Pelagianism. Where can I look? Thanks.

Here. Allow me to be more clear.

Pelagianism = belief that believers should be Baptized.

Anti- pelagianism = belief that infants should be Baptized.

 

[Yeshua1]

Here. Allow me to be more clear.

Pelagianism = belief that believers should be Baptized.

Anti- pelagianism = belief that infants should be Baptized.

Nope! Its the belief that we were not affected by the fall of Adam , not born with inherited sin natures, and that we are not judged guilty before god until we actually choose to sin, and that we still have sufficient free will remaining to accept/reject Jesus ourselves!

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm confused. I have not written anything in regard to Pelagius, Augustine, and baptism/Baptists. Not sure what you are referencing?

Further, I am not seeing where you give a definition of Pelagianism. Where can I look? Thanks.

Think he is saying that those hold to pel do adult baptism!

 

[MartyF]

Nope! Its the belief that we were not affected by the fall of Adam , not born with inherited sin natures, and that we are not judged guilty before god until we actually choose to sin, and that we still have sufficient free will remaining to accept/reject Jesus ourselves!

Pelagius didn't believe this. Why are you naming this after him?

 

[MartyF]

Pelagianism = The belief that monogamous marriage is not sinful.

Anti-pelagianism = The belief that monogamous marriage is sinful.