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How many Looking toward the Legacy Nasb version?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
It did become one when it became the NLT!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
The AS or "American Standard Version" of 1901 ( essentially the same as the RV from 1881-1894 ) used a different collated Greek text than the AV or "KJV", but I believe it used the same Hebrew text.
No.
Rather, anyone with a discerning eye can easily pick out the differences, especially in the New Testament.
In addition,
If I've misunderstood you and you meant to type, "NASB" ( or "New American Standard Bible" ) above, then I'll give you the same answer:
The Greek that the NASB is based on, is essentially the same as the AS / RV from 60-80 years before...
The "Critical Text", or a collated Greek text of the New Testament that tried to take into account manuscripts that had been discovered and made public since the 1500's.
Unfortunately and in my opinion,
It relied on some that should never have been included ( like "Sinaiticus" ), and also down-played or outright ignored outside witnesses in other languages ( like the Syriac Peshitta and Old Latin ) that were just as old as ( or older than ) the oldest Greek manuscript pieces that had since been discovered by archaeologists.
it also tended to replace the "multiplicity -of-witnesses" methodology with one of "older-is-better"...
At least with regard to the Greek texts.
By far, most of today's English translations are being published with the CT as their base,
and not the TR or MT as their basis in the Greek New Testament;
Which is where most Bible doctrines and doctrinal teaching comes from.
But,
These are my own private conclusions based on years of looking into this subject,
and I highly recommend doing your own independent research instead of taking any one particular person's word for it.
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kathleenmariekg
Active Member
Yes! I agree!
BUT does it paraphrase all the verses in the KJV? Or does it skip the verses usually skipped in most modern language translations?
And it is unlikely to be updated and will hopefully remain frozen, so that older printings will match newer printings word for word?
kathleenmariekg
Active Member
Ooops we cross posted! I am reading your response now.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the merry-go-round, Kathleen.
As I see it, nothing with respect to English translations will ever remain "frozen" again like the KJV did ( aside from spelling and printing revisions ) for over 250 years ( 1611 to 1881 ).
The days of all believers having a Bible in their own language, especially in English, that one can point to as a standard, are gone.
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kathleenmariekg
Active Member
The AS or "American Standard Version" of 1901 ( essentially the same as the RV from 1881-1894 ) used a different collated Greek text than the AV or "KJV", but I believe it used the same Hebrew text.
...
By far, most of today's English translations are being published with the CT as their base,
and not the TR or MT as their basis in the Greek New Testament;
Which is where most Bible doctrines and doctrinal teaching comes from.
...
But,
These are my own private conclusions based on years of looking into this subject,
and I highly recommend doing your own independent research on the subject instead of taking anyone particular person's word for it.
Thanks so much! I have had trouble finding the same comparisons for the AS and Living Bible as for other more popular paraphrases and translations
kathleenmariekg
Active Member
Welcome to the merry-go-round, Kathleen.
As I see it, nothing with respect to English translations will ever remain "frozen" again like the KJV did ( aside from spelling and printing revisions ) for over 250 years ( 1611 to 1881 ).
The days of all believers having a Bible in their own language, especially English, that one can point to as a standard, are gone.
Even for entirely secular reasons, this inability to have a frozen text is absurd. Even "Classic" literature has unabridged editions that are identical printing to printing.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
To me it's the result of "Textual Criticism",
especially with regard to the surviving Greek texts, on the secular side.
On the spiritual side...
You decide.
Hmmm...
I've never thought about it from quite that angle, but yes, I agree.
kathleenmariekg
Active Member
College textbooks do this, too. Publishers release a new edition almost every year that does not match the older editions.
Professors cannot keep up with all the updates and teach with the expectations that the new book contains all that was in the old book and the test students on content they have no access to.
Used books become worthless and students must buy the newest version. Except I learned to buy the older edition AND the newer edition and made sure to skim it for changes. I often was the only one in my classes to get some answers right.
Sometimes professors have rebelled and the publisher was forced to publish a "classic" edition, like this calculus textbook.
https://www.amazon.com/Calculus-Classic-Earl-W-Swokowski/dp/0534435386
Professors cannot keep up with all the updates and teach with the expectations that the new book contains all that was in the old book and the test students on content they have no access to.
Used books become worthless and students must buy the newest version. Except I learned to buy the older edition AND the newer edition and made sure to skim it for changes. I often was the only one in my classes to get some answers right.
Sometimes professors have rebelled and the publisher was forced to publish a "classic" edition, like this calculus textbook.
https://www.amazon.com/Calculus-Classic-Earl-W-Swokowski/dp/0534435386
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I remember when I was in junior college and had to buy a different set of text books each year, while selling off my slightly used ones.
Sometimes I could buy used books from those who took the courses before me,
but every so often a new edition would be required and I couldn't make use of a used book.
I imagine the schools receive an incentive to update their book requirements every so often.
It also makes it difficult to sell used books.
Apparently it is worse now than when I was in college in the '90's
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
What better way to keep money changing hands than to force people to "update" when they probably don't have to?
For example, technical information on some subjects ( basic electricity, hydraulics, pneumatics, etc ) hasn't changed much for decades...
Why publish a new edition when the old one(s) will teach what's needed?
Interesting....
Now I think that you have some idea of where the "KJV-Only" / "TR-Only" movement got its start...
although some people have taken it too far, in my opinion.
Myself, I'm "TR-Only", and I exclusively use the AV ( KJV ) for everything...
Unless something better comes along;
But I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Agreed.
What better way to keep money changing hands than to force people to "update" when they probably don't have to?
For example, technical information on some subjects ( basic electricity, hydraulics, pneumatics, etc ) hasn't changed much for decades...
Why publish a new edition when the old one(s) will teach what's needed?
Interesting....
Now I think that you have some idea of where the "KJV-Only" / "TR-Only" movement got its start...
although some people have taken it too far, in my opinion.
Myself, I'm "TR-Only", and I exclusively use the AV ( KJV ) for everything...
Unless something better comes along;
But I don't see that happening anytime soon.
John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
And he does in one, not every translation under the sun... Brother Glen
kathleenmariekg
Active Member
Yes, the college textbook problem is so much worse than it was. Professors have taken to not requiring that students purchases the texts, but students without texts score 1-2 grades lower than students with texts.
I don't know what to do other than stick with the KJV and the TR right now. I use the Living Bible as a COMMENTARY sometimes, and think of the author as a flawed but loving grandfather that left behind the best he could do. My computer chokes on software that doesn't use the TR and Strong's for its searches: I am using mostly the Bible Analyzer. I use the apps for Logos and Tecarta as little more than eBook readers for reference books, the same way I use my Kindle app.
This is just so unnecessary.
I don't know what to do other than stick with the KJV and the TR right now. I use the Living Bible as a COMMENTARY sometimes, and think of the author as a flawed but loving grandfather that left behind the best he could do. My computer chokes on software that doesn't use the TR and Strong's for its searches: I am using mostly the Bible Analyzer. I use the apps for Logos and Tecarta as little more than eBook readers for reference books, the same way I use my Kindle app.
This is just so unnecessary.
There have been some textual changes in KJV's all throughout its history.
Changes in the King James version
§ 2. MINOR ALTERATIONS OF THE TEXT
The following list includes all changes to the text of 1611 which do not involve the correction of obvious errors of the press (examples of which are given in § 5 below), or changes of spelling, capitalization, and punctuation. Most of these changes were made with reference to the text of Estienne 1550, and with a view to greater clarity or accuracy. The changes marked with an asterix "*" are all those which are considered improper or unnecessary by F.H.A. Scrivener, an eminent authority on the text of the KJV, in his book, The Authorized Edition of the English Bible (1611), its subsequent Reprints and modern Representatives. (Cambridge: University Press, 1884
Mat 3:12 Add he before will burn up. Rejected by Scrivener.
Mat 6:3 Add hand after right. Approved by Scrivener.
* Mat 9:34 Omit the before devils.
* Mat 12:23 Add not before this the son.
* Mat 13:6 Read had no root instead of had not root.
Mat 16:16 Add the before Christ.
Mat 16:19 Add and before whatsoever thou shalt loose.
Mat 26:75 Read word instead of words.
Mat 27:22 Read Pilate saith instead of Pilate said.
* Mat 27:52 Add the before saints.
Mark 2:4 Add the before press.
Mark 5:6 Read he ran instead of he came.
* Mark 6:7 Read he called instead of he calleth.
* Mark 6:53 Read Gennesaret instead of Genesareth. 1611 followed another source. 1769: S B E. 1611: Er Vul.
Mark 10:18 Read [there is] none good but one instead of there is no man good, but one.
Mark 11:8 Read branches off the trees instead of branches of the trees.
Luke 1:3 Add all before things.
Luke 1:74 Read hand instead of hands.
Luke 3:21 Omit and before it came to pass.
* Luke 8:8 Add had before said.
* Luke 11:16 Read others instead of other.
Luke 17:34 Add and before the other shall be left.
* Luke 18:9 Read others instead of other.
Luke 19:9 Read a son of Abraham instead of the son of Abraham.
Luke 20:12 Read sent a third instead of sent the third.
Luke 23:19 Read cast into prison instead of cast in prison.
John 5:18 Transpose not only because he to because he not only.
John 7:16 Add and said after Jesus answered them.
John 8:30 Read these words instead of those words.
John 11:3 Read his sisters instead of his sister.
* John 11:34 Read They said unto him instead of They say unto him.
John 12:22 Read tell Jesus instead of told Jesus.
John 15:20 Read than his lord instead of than the Lord.
* John 16:25 Add but before the time. 1611 followed another source. 1769: S B E. 1611: Er Vul.
John 21:17 Read He saith unto him instead of he said unto him.
Acts 2:22 Add and before wonders.
* Acts 5:34 Add the before law.
Acts 7:35 Read by the hand instead of by the hands.
Acts 8:32 Read his shearer instead of the shearer.
* Acts 10:9 Add top after upon the house.
* Acts 18:5 Add the before spirit.
* Acts 19:19 Transpose also of them to of them also.
* Acts 24:14 Add in before the prophets.
Acts 24:24 Read Jewess instead of Jew.
Acts 27:18 Read And we being exceedingly tossed with a tempest, the next [day] instead of And being exceedingly tossed with a tempest the next day.
Rom 3:24 Read Christ Jesus instead of Jesus Christ.
Rom 4:12 Add who before also walk.
Rom 6:12 Transpose reign therefore to therefore reign.
* Rom 7:2 Read law of her husband instead of law of the husband.
Rom 7:13 Transpose Was that then to Was then that.
Rom 11:28 Read for your sakes instead of for your sake.
Rom 12:2 Read and acceptable instead of that acceptable.
Rom 14:6 Read regardeth the day instead of regardeth a day.
Rom 14:10 Add for before we shall all stand.
* 1 Cor 4:9 Read appointed to death instead of approved to death.
1 Cor 7:32 Read things that belong instead of things that belongeth.
1 Cor 10:28 Add for before the earth is.
1 Cor 12:28 Read helps, governments instead of helps in governments.
* 1 Cor 13:2 Read have not charity instead of have no charity.
* 1 Cor 14:15 Add I before will pray.
* 1 Cor 14:18 Read than ye all instead of than you all.
1 Cor 14:23 Read one place instead of some place.
1 Cor 15:6 Read After that instead of And that.
1 Cor 15:41 Read and another glory of the moon instead of another of the moon.
1 Cor 15:48 Add also before that are earthy.
1 Cor 16:22 Read anathema, Maranatha instead of Anathema Maranatha.
* 2 Cor 5:1 Read made with hands instead of made with hand.
2 Cor 5:2 Read groan, earnestly desiring instead of groan earnestly, desiring.
2 Cor 5:20 Omit that before be ye reconciled.
2 Cor 8:21 Add also before in the sight.
2 Cor 9:5 Add and before not.
2 Cor 9:5 Add as before of covetousness
Changes in the King James version
§ 2. MINOR ALTERATIONS OF THE TEXT
The following list includes all changes to the text of 1611 which do not involve the correction of obvious errors of the press (examples of which are given in § 5 below), or changes of spelling, capitalization, and punctuation. Most of these changes were made with reference to the text of Estienne 1550, and with a view to greater clarity or accuracy. The changes marked with an asterix "*" are all those which are considered improper or unnecessary by F.H.A. Scrivener, an eminent authority on the text of the KJV, in his book, The Authorized Edition of the English Bible (1611), its subsequent Reprints and modern Representatives. (Cambridge: University Press, 1884
Mat 3:12 Add he before will burn up. Rejected by Scrivener.
Mat 6:3 Add hand after right. Approved by Scrivener.
* Mat 9:34 Omit the before devils.
* Mat 12:23 Add not before this the son.
* Mat 13:6 Read had no root instead of had not root.
Mat 16:16 Add the before Christ.
Mat 16:19 Add and before whatsoever thou shalt loose.
Mat 26:75 Read word instead of words.
Mat 27:22 Read Pilate saith instead of Pilate said.
* Mat 27:52 Add the before saints.
Mark 2:4 Add the before press.
Mark 5:6 Read he ran instead of he came.
* Mark 6:7 Read he called instead of he calleth.
* Mark 6:53 Read Gennesaret instead of Genesareth. 1611 followed another source. 1769: S B E. 1611: Er Vul.
Mark 10:18 Read [there is] none good but one instead of there is no man good, but one.
Mark 11:8 Read branches off the trees instead of branches of the trees.
Luke 1:3 Add all before things.
Luke 1:74 Read hand instead of hands.
Luke 3:21 Omit and before it came to pass.
* Luke 8:8 Add had before said.
* Luke 11:16 Read others instead of other.
Luke 17:34 Add and before the other shall be left.
* Luke 18:9 Read others instead of other.
Luke 19:9 Read a son of Abraham instead of the son of Abraham.
Luke 20:12 Read sent a third instead of sent the third.
Luke 23:19 Read cast into prison instead of cast in prison.
John 5:18 Transpose not only because he to because he not only.
John 7:16 Add and said after Jesus answered them.
John 8:30 Read these words instead of those words.
John 11:3 Read his sisters instead of his sister.
* John 11:34 Read They said unto him instead of They say unto him.
John 12:22 Read tell Jesus instead of told Jesus.
John 15:20 Read than his lord instead of than the Lord.
* John 16:25 Add but before the time. 1611 followed another source. 1769: S B E. 1611: Er Vul.
John 21:17 Read He saith unto him instead of he said unto him.
Acts 2:22 Add and before wonders.
* Acts 5:34 Add the before law.
Acts 7:35 Read by the hand instead of by the hands.
Acts 8:32 Read his shearer instead of the shearer.
* Acts 10:9 Add top after upon the house.
* Acts 18:5 Add the before spirit.
* Acts 19:19 Transpose also of them to of them also.
* Acts 24:14 Add in before the prophets.
Acts 24:24 Read Jewess instead of Jew.
Acts 27:18 Read And we being exceedingly tossed with a tempest, the next [day] instead of And being exceedingly tossed with a tempest the next day.
Rom 3:24 Read Christ Jesus instead of Jesus Christ.
Rom 4:12 Add who before also walk.
Rom 6:12 Transpose reign therefore to therefore reign.
* Rom 7:2 Read law of her husband instead of law of the husband.
Rom 7:13 Transpose Was that then to Was then that.
Rom 11:28 Read for your sakes instead of for your sake.
Rom 12:2 Read and acceptable instead of that acceptable.
Rom 14:6 Read regardeth the day instead of regardeth a day.
Rom 14:10 Add for before we shall all stand.
* 1 Cor 4:9 Read appointed to death instead of approved to death.
1 Cor 7:32 Read things that belong instead of things that belongeth.
1 Cor 10:28 Add for before the earth is.
1 Cor 12:28 Read helps, governments instead of helps in governments.
* 1 Cor 13:2 Read have not charity instead of have no charity.
* 1 Cor 14:15 Add I before will pray.
* 1 Cor 14:18 Read than ye all instead of than you all.
1 Cor 14:23 Read one place instead of some place.
1 Cor 15:6 Read After that instead of And that.
1 Cor 15:41 Read and another glory of the moon instead of another of the moon.
1 Cor 15:48 Add also before that are earthy.
1 Cor 16:22 Read anathema, Maranatha instead of Anathema Maranatha.
* 2 Cor 5:1 Read made with hands instead of made with hand.
2 Cor 5:2 Read groan, earnestly desiring instead of groan earnestly, desiring.
2 Cor 5:20 Omit that before be ye reconciled.
2 Cor 8:21 Add also before in the sight.
2 Cor 9:5 Add and before not.
2 Cor 9:5 Add as before of covetousness
The Living Bible used the American Standard Bible as it's source.
The Living Bible should be frozen in time. It's successor is an actual translation called the New Living Translation.
Here is some infotmation on the version.
The New Living Translation - A Critical Review
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I think that it's nice that someone updated some of the wording to make it more accurate or to modernize it as much as possible without taking away from the accuracy;
I'm all for that.
But the NASB ( "Legacy" or otherwise )?
To me, that's not an update of the Bible in English...
It's a partial re-write using different manuscripts and different translation criteria.
Again, and this is where I know full well that there are many here who disagree with me and with this subject:
Most people on this forum ( and within the professing body of Christ in general ) seem to see no problem with using contradictory Greek collated texts as a basis for translating the Bible into English, and then telling people that "they essentially say the same things"... when they clearly don't.
The prevailing attitude is, one side seems concerned with every word of God, and the other seems to say, "that's close enough".
I've seen it far too many times to count.
Plus, the people performing most of the translations nowadays ( publishing houses that stand to make millions off the process ) can't seem to give us, as believers, a timeline on when they think the whole thing will ever reach the finish line.
To make matters worse, why would or should they?
What business, in their right mind, would throw away a guaranteed $400 million a year sales?
None that I know of.
To me, the solution to the problem is very plain;
I'll stick with the "KJV" until someone can give me a single modern standard that I can trust to be God's very words in English...
and not a confusing mess of more than 20 whose best recommendation becomes, "choose one, they're all the word of God".
No, they are not.
May God bless you in your studies,
and may you always be reminded of His great grace to His children through Jesus Christ.
The Kjv itself NEVER was accepted as that standard English translation, as many still held to the Geneva, and others kept revising the Kjv itself!Welcome to the merry-go-round, Kathleen.
As I see it, nothing with respect to English translations will ever remain "frozen" again like the KJV did ( aside from spelling and printing revisions ) for over 250 years ( 1611 to 1881 ).
The days of all believers having a Bible in their own language, especially in English, that one can point to as a standard, are gone.
Thought that LB was a paraphrase that someone used for their kids bible lessons?
Only the Anglican/Church of England accepted Kjv as authorized version, as the Puritans and other stuck to the Geneva!