Where are the requirements of "getting revelation from God" (whatever that means to you) and "having seen the risen Christ" come from? Don't point me to Acts 1 because that is for a replacement of one of the Twelve shortly before Pentecost.
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How many of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit still operate today?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
What do you mean by "new revelation"? Are you simply talking about being led by the Spirit and knowing God's mind in certain matters, or are you talking about adding to scripture?
The twelve are a synonym for the Apostles (IMO).
Because it's not recorded in the word.
Like I said in my opinion "the twelve" of Matthew 10 are one entity - the twelve apostles.
Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth (Grk. apostello), and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
The "twelve" of verses 1 and 2 are summarized as one entity in verse 5.
That is how I see it BB.
HankD
Saying that those claiming to be Apsotles state that the Lord Himself gave them theri doctrines, even though much of them deny the real doctrines in he Bible!
Such as Copeland/Hinn/Price etc!
The New Testament speaks of more than that who are apostles.
The same verb (apostello) is given to the 70 who were also sent out in a similar way by Jesus (Luke 10:1)
Therefore, we have at least 71 apostles (70 + Paul).
I don't know why you are bringing heretics into the discussing. I am not talking about that kind of garbage.
I gave my answer from Matthew 10 BB. Like I said that's how I see it.
That and the fact that the scripture indicates that an "Apostles" had to be with Him while He was here in the flesh and had been an eye witness to the resurrected Jesus Christ.
HankD
Apostles aren't listed in the gifts of the Spirit. Neither are prophets. But where men are sent to preach the Gospel where it's never been heard, and where it is violently opposed, I think you would see them.
And I gave some support for my view from Luke 10:1. I can give more, if necessary.
It seems clear to me that there is a distinction between the Twelve and those who are simply apostles. Luke 10:1 and the example of Paul make that obvious to me, among other passages.
The only place I'm aware of such "qualifications" is when the 11 were considering a replacement for Judas in Acts 1, so that they could be literally the Twelve again.
Is there another passage that supports your assertion about qualifications for apostles?
Please note, I'm not trying to beat you down. I'm trying to figure out if I'm missed something somewhere. You have always been a good source for information, even if we do regularly disagree. I find your comments and insights quite helpful.
I am a little reluctant BB because this area of doctrine is a source of conflict within the church and has caused a great schism.
I am a committed cessationist including the thought that the apostolic ministry ended with John around 100AD without a method of apostolic succession.
That idea is found in Hebrews
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Last days - rather than the last prophetic days in this passage, the last days of revelation is meant and was given to Jesus Christ.
Those who knew Him in the flesh were part of the passing on of His message (the Gospel)
Chapter 1 declares the superiority of Christ over ALL created beings angels included and therefore...
Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Spoken by the Lord and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him.
He spoke. Those who heard Him passed it on and
was confirmed (aorist) ... by the signs and wonders - therefore no further confirmation was needed neither apostles after the completion of the canon of scripture in the "last days" (of revelation) and John left The scene.
HankD
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That is the requirement to be a real Apostle though! Paul waslast One from God, as he saw risen Chrit, and was commissioned by Him!
The Apostle was granted inspirtion from the Spirit, as were able to write down sacred scripture, and whenever they spoke on mttes of dotrtine, were correct...
Since John died, NONE have had that abilit from God to add to Canon, nor add additional doctrines to th Faith!
Just was saying that most who say that the exist today pointto those I listed!
I would allow for Apostles in he sense as a modern day missionary, but not in th sene as Acts had it!
Valid point.
When extra biblical revelation is claimed such as what they call a "word of wisdom" or a "word of knowledge" which during the apostolic chapter of the church was valid in its biblical context before the completion of the scripture, then be very cautious.
HankD
Even if th Spiri gives one those "gifts" they will never add to, nor subtrct from t Bible, and no additional doctrines...
As thoe listed above use tem as"fresh /new revealtion"
Mainly seem to be as confirmation of what God already has been dealing wit someone on..
NEVER use them for your mate or ministr by themselves!
you have not answered a direct question in years
Yes, for we now have the completed always true "word of the Lord" to us!
People like to ask about miracles today.
Rather than miracles God answers prayer.
HankD
Biggest miracle is a sinner becoming now a child of God!
That make ANY other one pale in comparison!