How many of the Spirit Gifts still operating, and are they anyApostles/prophets today?

[Yeshua1]

You do realize apostles and prophets have more functions than what you state, right? Apostle = sent ones. the Latin word for that is Missio, where we get our word Missionary = sent ones.

Read Ephesians 4:11-16 again. And Again. And Again. They are ministries that will be around until the return of Christ. That's what Scripture says. i believe Scripture.

So the modern day prophets and Apostles can speak new theology and write new theology then for the Church?

 

[Yeshua1]

Acts says very little about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts. Most of what you hear is manmade hype as people add to scripture trying to connect the dots, by adding their own dots. This is what scripture says and nothing more.

The Gift of the Holy Spirit

I. given directly to all believers then and now for all time

II. Included the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for some during the first century

A. Given directly to the 12 Apostles

1. They spoke in tongues, prophesied and performed signs and wonders in Acts

a. Given to Philip by the Apostles.

b. He worked signs and wonders

c. Given to the Samaritans by the Apostles

B. Given directly to Paul as an Apostle

1. He worked signs and wonders

a. Baptism of the Holy Spirit Given to the Ephesians by Paul the Apostle

(1) They spoke in tongues and prophesied

C. Given directly to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house

1. they spoke in tongues and magnified God

All of that pretty much revolved around the Apostles, so if no more Apostles, then?

 

[1689Dave]

All of that pretty much revolved around the Apostles, so if no more Apostles, then?

Also confirmed by the sickness and reliance on medicine in the epistles.

“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).

​

 

[Yeshua1]

Also confirmed by the sickness and reliance on medicine in the epistles.

“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).

​

Seems that the gift to heal was waning even in the Apostle Paul!

 

[JonShaff]

So the modern day prophets and Apostles can speak new theology and write new theology then for the Church?

Read Ephesians 4:11-16. They are Church Planters/Equipper/Pioneers for Gospel works where there is no or little Gospel Access. Foreign and Domestic. They lay the foundation so that Teacher/Shepherds can continue to mature the saints for works of service. That's why Paul said:
Romans 15:20, NIV: "It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else's foundation."

 

[JonShaff]

Seems that the gift to heal was waning even in the Apostle Paul!

Healing is mostly for unbelievers. Signs that the Kingdom is in their midst.

 

[Yeshua1]

Read Ephesians 4:11-16. They are Church Planters/Equipper/Pioneers for Gospel works where there is no or little Gospel Access. Foreign and Domestic. They lay the foundation so that Teacher/Shepherds can continue to mature the saints for works of service. That's why Paul said:
Romans 15:20, NIV: "It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else's foundation."

So they would not function in the same way as in say Acts?

 

[JonShaff]

So they would not function in the same way as in say Acts?

They are Kingdom Advancers--They would function similarly. I bet it would blow your mind if i told you that 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus are not "Pastoral Epistles", but Apostolic Epistles (ordain elders in every city). Timothy is an apostle who has followed up Paul's work and was instructed to Ordain Elders for the continuation of the ministry. Look what he says in 1 Thessalonians 2....

6 We were not looking for praise from people, not from you or anyone else, even though as apostles of Christ we could have asserted our authority. 7 Instead, we were like young children among you.

Who's this we?
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, Silas and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
Grace and peace to you.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thats like saying l the pastors and evangelists mentioned in The Bible are the only real ones.

No, rather that there is no more direct inspiration being granted today by God, as he completed all that he had to say to us in the Bible!

 

[Yeshua1]

They are Kingdom Advancers--They would function similarly. I bet it would blow your mind if i told you that 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus are not "Pastoral Epistles", but Apostolic Epistles (ordain elders in every city). Timothy is an apostle who has followed up Paul's work and was instructed to Ordain Elders for the continuation of the ministry. Look what he says in 1 Thessalonians 2....

6 We were not looking for praise from people, not from you or anyone else, even though as apostles of Christ we could have asserted our authority. 7 Instead, we were like young children among you.

Who's this we?
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, Silas and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
Grace and peace to you.

Are you teaching Apostolic succession now?

 

[JonShaff]

Are you teaching Apostolic succession now?

I've quoted Scripture and shared the plain meaning of the text. You can add whatever man-made terminology you want, the text is clearly teaching the works of apostles. God calls apostles to particular works, just as He does with evangelists and teachers, etc. Man does not appoint apostles or teachers. God does.

 

[Yeshua1]

I've quoted Scripture and shared the plain meaning of the text. You can add whatever man-made terminology you want, the text is clearly teaching the works of apostles. God calls apostles to a particular works, just as He does with evangelists and teachers, etc. Man does not appoint apostles or teachers. God does.

Not Apostles in the same sense as were in Acts....

 

[JonShaff]

Not Apostles in the same sense as were in Acts....

Please explain what you mean by that?

 

[Yeshua1]

Please explain what you mean by that?

None today can write down inspired theology, cannot get any additional and new revelations from God for us, no new doctrines!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Wait a minute, aren't missionaries just evangelists that take the Gospel overseas? Isn't missionary a man made construct? Evangelists spread the Gospel or Good News of Jesus Christ to people. In America we call those who work out of domestic churches evangelists, and those spreading the Word to new territory missionaries. However, the original Greek lacks that distinction.
What is Evangelism? | CARM.org

 

[atpollard]

[Acts 13:1-3 NIV] 1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

I think that how God appoints missionaries, and the Church sends them out, has not actually changed very much at all. If Barnabas and Silas and Timothy, who never attempted to add to scripture, were apostles, then maybe ...

 

[atpollard]

Wait a minute, aren't missionaries just evangelists that take the Gospel overseas? Isn't missionary a man made construct? Evangelists spread the Gospel or Good News of Jesus Christ to people. In America we call those who work out of domestic churches evangelists, and those spreading the Word to new territory missionaries. However, the original Greek lacks that distinction.
What is Evangelism? | CARM.org

There is a difference between those who go out to spread the Gospel and "lead" individuals to Christ, and those whose mission is to go out and start a church where none exists. They are related, but having met people that do both, I sense a different set of skills and a different God given purpose. So setting semantics aside, there are domestic and overseas "church planters" as well as domestic and overseas "evangelists".

 

[Yeshua1]

[Acts 13:1-3 NIV] 1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

I think that how God appoints missionaries, and the Church sends them out, has not actually changed very much at all. If Barnabas and Silas and Timothy, who never attempted to add to scripture, were apostles, then maybe ...

They were not what we would call Apostles, more like apostles!

 

[Yeshua1]

There is a difference between those who go out to spread the Gospel and "lead" individuals to Christ, and those whose mission is to go out and start a church where none exists. They are related, but having met people that do both, I sense a different set of skills and a different God given purpose. So setting semantics aside, there are domestic and overseas "church planters" as well as domestic and overseas "evangelists".

I could agree with you that the modern equivalent of the Apostle would be missionaries, especially those gifted to plants and administer local churches, just as long as we do not see them as gifted to do signs and wonders, or write new scriptures today!

 

[JonShaff]

None today can write down inspired theology, cannot get any additional and new revelations from God for us, no new doctrines!

I agree with that.