How many of you have left IFB churches for something else?

[AVL1984]

By IFB, I mean the legalistic INDEPENDENT (not independent) FUNDAMENTAL (not fundamental) Baptist churches...the kind where slacks on women is a sin, hair touching a mans ear or facial hair is unacceptable, and if you were saved when someone showed you the plan of salvation out of an NIV "you weren't really getting the Word of God, so you're probably not saved" type churches?
If you left, what kind of church did you end up in? Just wondering.

Thanks and God bless!

BrotherTony

 

[BrianT]

We attended such a church for 18 months, while I was temporarily living in a different city because of work. When we started attending there, we had no idea what we were getting into. After several months, it was pretty clear, but we had made some good friends and so we stuck it out until the 18 months were up. I had many many dicussions about my NIV. If my job required me to move there permanently, we would have found another church though.

 

[Optional]

My church is IFB, but I do not recognize anything of what you cite.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Optional:
My church is IFB, but I do not recognize anything of what you cite.

Don't get me wrong. Not ALL IFB churches are like that. In fact we are going to visit one this weekend for services, and may go there tomorrow for their annual church cookout. The church I'm in now is very HYLESISTIC and overly legalistic. I believe I would call it HYPERfundamentalism. But, many are not so HYPERfundamental. One can go too extreme. Thank God we've found some churches where there is some joy in salvation.

B.T.

 

[Scott J]

It is a misnomer to call Hyles-style churches "fundamental." They claim the title as a source of legitimacy but pervert biblical truths.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Scott J:
It is a misnomer to call Hyles-style churches "fundamental." They claim the title as a source of legitimacy but pervert biblical truths.

Could you please explain? I know several who have attended FBCH and HAC and they have all seemed quite "fundamental"...maybe the better word would be HYPERFUNDAMENTAL. I know in our church most of the things we do rally around Hyles type projects, programs, etc. That's one reason my wife and I are leaving and going to a Southern Baptist church in our area. Though they use the NIV, I've seen more respect from the people towards each other, and have heard more BIBLE preached than in my own home church.

B.T.

 

[PackerBacker]

Tony,

Glad you are looking elsewhere. On deputation we visited a couple of Hyles type churches. The people seemed so beaten and lacking of joy, outside the expected outbursts of, “Amen, preach it brother, you tell um preacher.”

Frankly we could not wait to get in our van and leave these places. The focus, perhaps unknowingly to them, was centered on the preacher and not on a wonderful God and savior. Rather than helping each other, the attitude was to degrade anyone not keeping the same set standards.

Move on. Don’t blame it all on these folks though. You put yourself in that situation. Learn from it with out letting it cause you to be bitter the rest of your life and press on. Really hoping you will find the group of believers you need to encourage you and to glorify God together (rather than a preacher or SOTL hero). Get ready for a breath of fresh air.

Steve

 

[Chaplain's Wife]

We move every few years and have been members of that type of IBF church and have visited a few like that too. (without joining) We attend a Southern Baptist Church now in Virginia that is part of the Conservative Southern Baptist movement here. The pastor preaches from the NASV and Bible version, clothing, movies, music, are non-issues in my large church, Praise God.

 

[Gayla]

I've been in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches all my life. the first was TOO Independent. If the clique saw a female member in public wearing pants, they would act like they didn't see you . .or didn't know you . . . .

What exactly is "Hylesistic" anyway?

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Gayla:
I've been in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches all my life. the first was TOO Independent. If the clique saw a female member in public wearing pants, they would act like they didn't see you . .or didn't know you . . . .

What exactly is "Hylesistic" anyway?

Anything based on the "Doctrines of Hyles" instead of the doctrines of the Bible. Any church that is basically a jr. FBCH church (satellite church).

 

[Dr. Bob]

We've been trying to paint a clear distinction between the historic fundamental baptist movement and the group that "hijacked" the name and perverted it into a hyper-legalism and man-worship.

Best estimates is that 75%+ of ifb churches DO NOT cave in to the hyles mentality, legalism, and perversion of grace.

Just like 75% of the SBC churches still hold to inerrancy and inspiration (and have taken back the convention from the liberals, thank you Jesus).

We call the extremist group "pseudo-ifb" or even "pssycho-ifb". They are to be pitied. Like many caught up in a cult and blinded by leaders and false teaching, these are our brothers and sisters put back into bondage . . and they don't even realize it.

Oh, I just finished my 3rd month in the Evangelical Free Church of Casper that started as a split from the Baptist Church I pastored! Small world. Identical doctrinal statement, but some other MAJOR differences. But as a state missionary I am helping them until a new pastor comes on the field.

The "fraternity of the free" is a unique place for an historic ifb'er like myself!

 

[Renewed]

Yes. I couldn't do it for a while, too much guilt, but now I have.
I'm starting at an SBC church next Sunday.

You know, it never really hits you how much control and false love can be in these extreme IFB churches until you leave. Suddenly you don't matter anymore, and you're considered a traitor, and a heretic.
R

 

[crazycat]

Well one of the church I am current;y attending is a IFB separated church. It has no affliation with Hyles, however it does have what some would refer to legalistic standards. I attended Bible college with the Pastor and even that school was never a Hylesite (infact more antihyles).

I Been in IFB in an IFb church like you describe and left many years ago. It took me a while to get back into church, but since I have I am drawn closer to the separation of the world that I heard in school. It is like a constant gnawing at my soul when I do something like wear pants or mix swim that I really feel is wrong.

So to answer your question Bro Tony. Yes I left 12 years ago but I am looking at going back. I was much happier in a lot of ways when I surrendered my lifestyle to Christ.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by crazycat:
Well one of the church I am current;y attending is a IFB separated church. It has no affliation with Hyles, however it does have what some would refer to legalistic standards. I attended Bible college with the Pastor and even that school was never a Hylesite (infact more antihyles).

I Been in IFB in an IFb church like you describe and left many years ago. It took me a while to get back into church, but since I have I am drawn closer to the separation of the world that I heard in school. It is like a constant gnawing at my soul when I do something like wear pants or mix swim that I really feel is wrong.

So to answer your question Bro Tony. Yes I left 12 years ago but I am looking at going back. I was much happier in a lot of ways when I surrendered my lifestyle to Christ.

Cat, I'm glad that you are checking that church. It really is a good church from what I have heard of it. I don't believe they are so steeped in legalism that they will hurt you. I believe there is a freedom there. For me, leaving IFBism is one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make, but it was a choice between that or totally caving and becoming a "HYLES ZOMBIE". I couldn't do that. Everything in the church we were attending was somehow, someway related to HYLES. Even this week they are trying to indoctrinate what teens are left in the church in the Hyles Doctrine by taking them to HAC/FBCH. There were several other good events available for these teens to learn more about God in two days than they would learn in two years at Hyles. Yet, the choice was Hyles.

Yesterday was our third week at this SBC, and I got more out of the Word of God (Version? NIV) in that service than I got out of any ten in the previous church put together. The pastor was actually preaching about Christ and not himself or Jack Hyles. The evening service was about the trip that the teens/college students took to Washington, D.C. to learn about our country's history and Christian Heritage. The testimonies of those teens was awesome to me...their love for Christ showed, whether they were wearing shorts, had a little longer hair, or read from the NIV. Two people were saved on that trip from Washington, D.C. Our teens WITNESSED while on their trip. NEVER in ANY IFB church I've been associated with did any of the teens hand out tracks, witness or even lead someone to Christ. I'm not saying they are all like this. They aren't. But here they are all Hyles, Bill Rice, or Sword of the Lord related, and so steeped in legalism that one can't breath. I can't abide that any longer! Thank God for the "fraternity of the free"!

BrotherTony

 

[PackerBacker]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:


Best estimates is that 75%+ of ifb churches DO NOT cave in to the hyles mentality, legalism, and perversion of grace.

I'd not question the 75% estimate for legalism, but I think the estimates of those NOT caving into a perversion of grace would be much lower. We have been in a lot of IFB churches and different types and are able to look back now and see the stated position on grace and the actions are often different. The 1-2-3 prayer for salvation, shake my hand if you meant business, write the date down and never forget this moment stuff and hoopla over big named evangelists who get salvation decisions galore with very few changed lives, IS swallowed by more than 25% of IFB churches. Just my take on it.

 

[Monergist]

Originally posted by Brother Tony:
By IFB, I mean the legalistic INDEPENDENT (not independent) FUNDAMENTAL (not fundamental) Baptist churches...the kind where slacks on women is a sin, hair touching a mans ear or facial hair is unacceptable, and if you were saved when someone showed you the plan of salvation out of an NIV "you weren't really getting the Word of God, so you're probably not saved" type churches?

"All that and then some" is how you could describe the kind of church I grew up in. There was one difference, however, with the typical IFB church: We were the Freewill type (denied enternal security).

After I left home I spent several years in a more reasonable IFB church, then Southern Baptist.

At 37 years old, I am now a 5-point Calvinist (some change, Huh? ) looking for a church home. (No, my family hasn't disowned me---yet! )

[ July 15, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: TimothyW ]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

How many folks here have left churches where anything goes, where folks can serve wearing shorts & T-shirts, where the music is so loud hat the elderly can't stand it, where when they are not challenged to go out & be seperate from the world, where nobody mentions that 90% of our friends are going to hell, where the bible doesn't really exclude women pastors, where missionaries aren't supported, and doctrine is compromised to bring more people in ?

 

[Renewed]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
How many folks here have left churches where anything goes, where folks can serve wearing shorts & T-shirts, where the music is so loud hat the elderly can't stand it, where when they are not challenged to go out & be seperate from the world, where nobody mentions that 90% of our friends are going to hell, where the bible doesn't really exclude women pastors, where missionaries aren't supported, and doctrine is compromised to bring more people in ?

LOL. Good question!
I understand your reason behind it, and the intended sarcasm.
What I'd like to challenge you to do is give a biblical definition of separation, and give me the benefits of inundating your neighbor with in your face tracts as opposed to a little lifestyle evangelism.
You see, I have found that typical IFB's do a number of things that would seem untypical of Christianity. Sure, we may look good in suits or flowing skirts and a KJV in our hands, being led by pastors who teach us to follow them even if we think they're wrong, taking great caution to have a biblical style of clothing and hair (which I'd love to have someone show me where slacks on women or hair that touches the top of your ears is unbiblical) and spending five minutes trying to convert a person to Christianity.

BUT

How many of those people are true converts? How much of the true bible are you learning each Sunday, or is it the salvation message each week and expressions of extreme concern over whether you're looking the part and dressing up to IFB standards? What would they say if you were friendly with the SBC church or another denomination, or worked cooperatively with other Christians from another church? What if you told them that you were saved hearing the message from an NIV? Would your salvation be questioned? Probably.

In my point of view now, typical IFB's are not representative of true biblical Christians. A true Christian teaches God through his complete lifestyle, Christ in him naturally, not because of whether they follow some man-made standards. A true Christian pastor will not even hint to his congregation that they should continue to follow him should he be wrong, since he is the man of God. A true Christian will help other Christians, and a true Christian will realize that another Christian is not a false one if he/she decides that a non-IFB church is where they will learn and grow best.
R

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Your description of a typical IFB church does not represent mine. I'm sorry so for the folks who have had bad experiences, but a congregation should be able to confront a pastor on unbiblical teachings. A pastor's job is to keep false teachings out of the church, not introduce them. Any pastor who tells you to obey him over the word of God has just kicked himself out of the IFB circle.

There may be pastors out there calling themselves IFB, hijacking the term, but don't judge every one of us by them, please.

www.invitation.org

Thank you for challenging me, I invite you to read & listen to some of the sermons that have been preached at our church.

Since only God is perfect, & churches, while led by the Holy Spirit, are built & maintained by fallen men. So it is very likely that NOBODY belongs to a "perfect church".

[ July 16, 2002, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

[crazycat]

Mr. Curtis
I have left dead chuerches like taht. Churches like that are what I call country club churches where all good people meet to discuss the bibl, gossip and knock the pastor, Where the rock music they play literally hurts your ear drums. Modesty is not an issue, heck even the Pastor never wears a suit or tie to preach in it.
Can't say I seen many souls saved, but hey we were sure comfortable. isnt that what it is all about?