How many of you have left IFB churches for something else?

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Renewed:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
How many folks here have left churches where anything goes, where folks can serve wearing shorts & T-shirts, where the music is so loud hat the elderly can't stand it, where when they are not challenged to go out & be seperate from the world, where nobody mentions that 90% of our friends are going to hell, where the bible doesn't really exclude women pastors, where missionaries aren't supported, and doctrine is compromised to bring more people in ?

LOL. Good question!
I understand your reason behind it, and the intended sarcasm.
What I'd like to challenge you to do is give a biblical definition of separation, and give me the benefits of inundating your neighbor with in your face tracts as opposed to a little lifestyle evangelism.
You see, I have found that typical IFB's do a number of things that would seem untypical of Christianity. Sure, we may look good in suits or flowing skirts and a KJV in our hands, being led by pastors who teach us to follow them even if we think they're wrong, taking great caution to have a biblical style of clothing and hair (which I'd love to have someone show me where slacks on women or hair that touches the top of your ears is unbiblical) and spending five minutes trying to convert a person to Christianity.

BUT

How many of those people are true converts? How much of the true bible are you learning each Sunday, or is it the salvation message each week and expressions of extreme concern over whether you're looking the part and dressing up to IFB standards? What would they say if you were friendly with the SBC church or another denomination, or worked cooperatively with other Christians from another church? What if you told them that you were saved hearing the message from an NIV? Would your salvation be questioned? Probably.

In my point of view now, typical IFB's are not representative of true biblical Christians. A true Christian teaches God through his complete lifestyle, Christ in him naturally, not because of whether they follow some man-made standards. A true Christian pastor will not even hint to his congregation that they should continue to follow him should he be wrong, since he is the man of God. A true Christian will help other Christians, and a true Christian will realize that another Christian is not a false one if he/she decides that a non-IFB church is where they will learn and grow best.
R</font>[/QUOTE]I very well understand both sides. I've preached for both the BMA and the Independents. I have found that in IFB churches, the letter of the law is what abounds, and not the grace of Jesus Christ. I guarantee you what I see in the people of the SBC I'm currently attending is real salvation. Unless someone can fake Christianity that well, I would have to say most of the teens in the church are Christians, living for the Lord. I do see that some are having their standards move up, though the standards in the church allow them to "come as they are" within reason.
I cannot find anywhere in the Bible where it is unscriptural for women to wear slacks to the services or the men to have hair touching their ears, or even having facial hair. But most of the HYLISTIC type mindsets do try to make these minor things MAJOR DOCTRINES, taking away the working of the Holy Spirit and taking that job upon themselves. No wonder we have so many become disenchanted with Christianity and forsaking the churches. Preachers in most IFB churches expect "cookie cutter" (clone) Christians. It doesn't work that way.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
Your description of a typical IFB church does not represent mine. I'm sorry so for the folks who have had bad experiences, but a congregation should be able to confront a pastor on unbiblical teachings. A pastor's job is to keep false teachings out of the church, not introduce them. Any pastor who tells you to obey him over the word of God has just kicked himself out of the IFB circle.

There may be pastors out there calling themselves IFB, hijacking the term, but don't judge every one of us by them, please.

www.invitation.org

Thank you for challenging me, I invite you to read & listen to some of the sermons that have been preached at our church.

Since only God is perfect, & churches, while led by the Holy Spirit, are built & maintained by fallen men. So it is very likely that NOBODY belongs to a "perfect church".

Mr. Curtis, I hope I didn't give the impression that ALL IFB churches are that way, because I've been in one or two of them while visiting relatives that were EXCELLENT! If only the term hadn't been hijacked to represent people like that man from Hammond. You all know of whom I'm talking. So, please, don't take that as an attack on IFBism. It's just typical of the ones I grew up in and have been in since I was married nearly 20 years ago. I just praise the Lord for the freedom I have found in the SBC I'm in now,where people love the Lord, show they love the Lord, witness without judgement, and are actively involved with their youth helping them to grow to be stronger Christians.

Brother Tony

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I attended Hyles-Anderson College in the early eighties. I think it is a very unfortunate sterotype that you have placed upon those who have. Dr. Hyles was one of the most loving, generous, compassionate men I have ever met. I did not stay and graduate from there although I wish I had.

Not all those who went to HAC are like what you've described in this thread. There was only one Jack Hyles. He did a great work for the Lord. Now he is in heaven enjoying the treasures that he laid up. The problem comes from men who want to be like Dr. Hyles and will do anything to achieve that objective. Our focus should be on the Lord and not on any man. If men are looking at Dr. Hyles, that's their fault not his.

The church I pastor is one like you've described. I make no apology for that. We see souls saved nearly every week. I do not subscribe to 1-2-3 repeat after me soulwinning. The gospel is plainly presented and the Holy Spirit is given time to act.

We do have standards. We do have conservative music in our services. I do preach against any worldly amusements that would "give the very appearance of evil." I do expect my children to obey. I do have biblical requirements for our church leaders.

I want our people to stand before God and hear Him say, "Well done." By obeying His command to "come out from among them and be ye separate" is a good start.

I have had people leave our church because of the standards. I have had those same people come back and ask for help because they lost their kids to the world.

I have had people come into the church and get saved and then grow in the Lord never balking at a standard that is shown them from the Word of God.

Again, I am what I am without apology. I'm convinced that if Jesus, John the Baptist, or Paul were to show up and preach at many Baptist Churches today, many people, from the Pastor on down would get offended and walk out.

Sad, isn't it?

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

I've done the opposite. I've left other religions to become an Independent Fundamental Baptist. I like the comfort of knowing that the church takes it's standards and teachings from the Bible. It's comforting.

Sorry, you had such a bad experience.

Wisdom Seeker

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by crazycat:
Mr. Curtis
I have left dead chuerches like taht. Churches like that are what I call country club churches where all good people meet to discuss the bibl, gossip and knock the pastor, Where the rock music they play literally hurts your ear drums. Modesty is not an issue, heck even the Pastor never wears a suit or tie to preach in it.
Can't say I seen many souls saved, but hey we were sure comfortable. isnt that what it is all about?

Cat, no that isn't what it's all about. Jesus Christ is what it's all about, and that is what MANY of the IFB pastors have forgotten. They have experienced so much leeway in making and setting up man made rules that they have forgotten about the gospel. The funny thing was, today as the pastor of the SBC that we've been visiting was talking to my wife and myself, he told me that he had graduated from and IFB seminary, and that he had been raised a charismatic. But , God led him to the Southern Baptists, and we fully believe that is what the Lord is doing with us. Now when I sing "Just as I am" I can sing it truly and not be thinking in my head "Just as I am, without one plea, I'm coming to dress as Pastor wants me to be". It's the salvation first, the changing of the life as the Holy Spirit convicts and leads in this new church, not salvation, then forced convictions with the pastor playing the part of the Holy Spirit, and then trying to down the person if they aren't convicted the way he is or on his level. Somethings been lost in MOST (not all)IFB churches, and many new "doctrines" have been added. I think Jesus went as far as to call it hypocrisy!

B.T.

 

[Grasshopper]

Let's not hold Hyles up to high.

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Grasshopper:
Let's not hold Hyles up to high.

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/

I didn't check the link, but I have to agree with the statement of NOT holding Hyles up too high! Though he did many good things for Baptist churches and got many churches motivated for growth, he also did much harm to many people, directly or indirectly. I'm not saying he wasn't saved as others have posted on different forums on the net, but I am saying that he did some pretty irrepairable damage to many lives, including his own sons. From my experience when one goes to an IFB college, they are trained to marry that "right girl", trained to "soulwin", trained to get those numbers in at ANY cost. This IS so at Hyles. I've been there, I've heard the chapel speakers, and I've witnessed the damage to many of my friends and to relatives also. Granted if he had not gotten the church I grew up in interested in the bus ministry, I would not be saved, but that does not negate the fact that many of those he's trained in his colleges are tearing Christians down instead of building them up, and it was through the training they received at FBCH/HAC! No apologies for my stand on this. I know many have fond memories of him. I do too, but they don't wipe away the bad as in my own case the bad has been way to recent, and way too much.

 

[Grasshopper]

Good post. In my opinion he has influenced many churches this way.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Grasshopper:
Good post. In my opinion he has influenced many churches this way.

Grasshopper, the church my wife and I just left was pastored by a man who attended Hyles. His assistant pastor also attended and graduated from Hyles. This caused a church split about two years ago, and the church has never really fully recovered since. It was funny to me when I asked our assistant pastor about Eschatology, and Hamartiology, he didn't know what in the world I was talking about. But he sure knew what "getting the numbers in there" was.

Brother Tony

 

[onevoice]

I was actually saved and licensed to preach in an IFB Church, but we were not THAT strict. I left around 10 years later for a Southern Baptist Church, but still hold to many of the Independant Beliefs.

One of the reasons I left (and has become an embarassment as I look back at my own actions) is that the church was very critical and judgemental of others. I still believe that we should seek a seperated life and should respect the house of God by not wearing shorts during a service and stuff like that, but I believe it is a little much to say that a woman can't wear pants to church. I would rather see her in church with pants on than not in church.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God" Deureronomy 22:5

BUT...

I have seen pants worn by women that I wouldn't wear. They are feminine. Women wear pants in our church and never hear word one about it. Women wear pants that do not violate the above verse.

 

[Abiyah]

I wanted to find out who in the world this Jack
Hyles guy was, so Ii started to read that site.
Blech! It almost reads like porn! No thank you!
I don't need to know about this.

 

[onevoice]

Quote:
I have seen pants worn by women that I wouldn't wear. They are feminine. Women wear pants in our church and never hear word one about it. Women wear pants that do not violate the above verse.
______________________________________________
I agree. There is a difference between a woman wearing men's pants and a nice ladies dress suit (to me, anyway)

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Pastor Bob 63,
Amen! Thank you for your comments. If I ever move to Xenia, Kansas, yours will be the first church I visit.

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by Abiyah:
I wanted to find out who in the world this Jack
Hyles guy was, so Ii started to read that site.
Blech! It almost reads like porn! No thank you!
I don't need to know about this.

http://baptist-city.com/dr__hyles.htm
Here's a (decent) link with a different view. You can also listen to some of his sermons on there.
Chrys

 

[PackerBacker]

While true all sides have different views, even the Pope has a website to make him look great and holy. http://www.catholic.net/RCC/POPE/Pope.html

No one wants their spiritual guru to look bad.

 

[7-Kids]

We attended an IFB church for one year here. They were exactly what is described here, with the added malady of a pastor who wasn't qualified to be one (unsubmissive wife, son in rebellion). There were many reasons we left. They kind of piled up on top of each other until the last one did it. Well, the last one alone would have done it too. The pastor started teaching basically a works salvation, and because of the way the church constitution was, you could not get rid of the pastor unless he voluntarily stepped down. It wasn't the rules that were the problem, it was that there was no scriptural basis for them. Also, once we figured out the rules, they either changed or more were added. I was never quite sure what was allowed and what was not. The list of rules finally bacame unbearable. We are currently looking for a church.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by Chrysoprasus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abiyah:
I wanted to find out who in the world this Jack
Hyles guy was, so Ii started to read that site.
Blech! It almost reads like porn! No thank you!
I don't need to know about this.

http://baptist-city.com/dr__hyles.htm
Here's a (decent) link with a different view. You can also listen to some of his sermons on there.
Chrys</font>[/QUOTE]So, Chrys, are you saying that you are one who supports the Hylesistic system?

B.T.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by SixKids:
We attended an IFB church for one year here. They were exactly what is described here, with the added malady of a pastor who wasn't qualified to be one (unsubmissive wife, son in rebellion). There were many reasons we left. They kind of piled up on top of each other until the last one did it. Well, the last one alone would have done it too. The pastor started teaching basically a works salvation, and because of the way the church constitution was, you could not get rid of the pastor unless he voluntarily stepped down. It wasn't the rules that were the problem, it was that there was no scriptural basis for them. Also, once we figured out the rules, they either changed or more were added. I was never quite sure what was allowed and what was not. The list of rules finally bacame unbearable. We are currently looking for a church.

I wish you well in your search! I will be praying for you and your family. It's hard to leave a church, even a lousy one if you've become attached to the people. We just went through it and left the Independents to go to the Southern Baptists! Best move we ever made!

B.T.