How many times Did God Baptize With the Holy Ghost

[JD731]

Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Ac 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Ac 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

At the very least ones pondering this question should understand that there was no Holy Ghost to give men life on the earth until God poured him out from heaven. There was water on the earth in such abundance that it was pooled up in places and one man could immerse another man in water. In symbolism this would give the impression that the outside of the man is cleansed. This is done with the assistance of another man.

A man can also drink this water and, in fact, if he will live he must drink this water. This surface water is water that has pooled up after it has fallen from heaven in the form of rain and everyone can drink and live. There are several metaphors going on here in Acts 1-10. It is the same water that cleanses the outward and that gives him inward life.

Water baptism by immersion is God's metaphor of his great salvation.

Take a look at Titus 3:5 There is context but interested people can read it for exciting truths.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

So, there are two instances so far in history where God baptized with the Holy Ghost, once he baptized Israel in Acts 2, and only Israel were candidates for salvation. No gentiles were saved until Acts 10.

The symbolism of baptism in water was ordered of those individuals of Israel and of the Jews before the Holy Ghost could be received of them.
However, when God baptized the gentiles with the Holy Ghost, individuals received him into their bodies before they were baptized in water. They received him the moment they believed in their hearts This is a significant transition by God and it seems to be the manner of receiving the Holy Ghost even of Israel and the Jews from this point on.

The picture that God wants us to see in this metaphorical prophecy is that the whole world has been baptized with the Holy Ghost and he is here in such abundance, like water, that all of us are immersed with him and now all we must do is open up our mouths and drink him in by faith.

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

All I can say is WOW! What about you?

 

[37818]

@JD731,
You have, it seems, a different view on the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JD731]

@JD731,
You have, it seems, a different view on the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I have the correct view on the baptism with the Holy Ghost. Words are important.

 

[37818]

I have the correct view on the baptism with the Holy Ghost. Words are important.

Really? Then how are the other three views of the baptism of/with the Holy Spirit different than your correct view?

 

[JD731]

Really? Then how are the other three views of the baptism of/with the Holy Spirit different than your correct view?

As usual you are dealing in unstated and unproven ideas and concepts as if I can read your mind. I gave biblical reasons that you ignored.
Two baptisms are mentioned by John the Baptist. One with the Holy Ghost and the other with fire.

Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This nation was obviously baptized with the Holy Ghost in Acts 2 but they have not been baptized with fire yet.

How does the baptism with fire, when it occurs, fit your ideas and concepts. Is the fire in them or are they in the fire?

 

[37818]

There is a disagreement when believers had received the promisd Comforter. John 14:16. John 20:22 or Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

 

[JD731]

[QUOTE="37818, post: 2898253, member: 14338"]There is a disagreement when believers had received the promisd Comforter. John 14:16. John 20:22 or Acts of the Apostles 1:8.[/QUOTE]

Jn 14:6 and Jn 20:22 is not a baptism. It is individuals receiving the Spirit IN THEM, that is in their bodies. It is ONLY the apostles who for the sake of the ministry are invested with the powers of Jesus Christ himself. There are no words that one can even misconstrue as baptism. Every physical entity that God has created he has baptized in water, even the universe itself seems to be included. The earth certainly was. God the Father baptized Israel in water, see 1 Cor 10 and in connection with God the Son in Mk 1, and in connection with the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, three times and every time it was them in water and not water in them.Additionally, God baptized the nation with the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, meaning he immersed them with the Holy Ghost. Later he baptized the gentiles (the world) with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10) Since then there is no place on the earth where the Holy Ghost is not present to save ones who hear and believe the gospel of Christ by indwelling them. This is the gift and grace of God. One can preach the gospel to any and every person, and if and when they believe, the Spirit will indwell them immediately and forever. Before the baptism, the Holy Ghost was not present everywhere to save people.

There is a time when the Holy Ghost will not be present any longer but it will be after an appointed time when the Holy Ghost will be taken from the earth along with all them who are indwelt by him.

There is no such thing as a baptism inside a person or thing. Why not believe the words and use reason and logic.


Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost
baptism

them at this time and us at the beginning. -Logic / reason.
batisms with the Holy Ghost of two groups but at 2 different times

What did the apostles and Jewish Christians in Jerusalem think happened here after this testimony of Peter?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Water baptism by immersion is God's metaphor of his great salvation.

Take a look at Titus 3:5 There is context but interested people can read it for exciting truths.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Also you can apply 1 Peter 3:21 below.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh" which is what water does, hence deferring from water baptism, to the answer of a good conscience toward God which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

So that baptism in 1 Peter 3:21 is about the baptism with the Holy Ghost that the Father & Jesus Christ gives us at our salvation for all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead.

As for answering the question of how many times did God baptizes with the Holy Ghost? Once you receive the Holy Spirit from knocking at the door of Jesus Christ, we would never ask for the Holy Spirit again, les we sound like Pentecostals and Charismatics in making the Father look evil as if He had not given us the Holy Ghost the first time when knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[37818]

@JD731,
FYI, I am personally persuaded the baptism with the Holy Spirit has one beginning on Pentecost. And Cornelius' household was the first non Jewish household to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

 

[JD731]

@JD731,
FYI, I am personally persuaded the baptism with the Holy Spirit has one beginning on Pentecost. And Cornelius' household was the first non Jewish household to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

That is pretty vague. Explain the properties of the baptism. What happened to Cornelius' household and is it still happening today?

 

[37818]

.

That is pretty vague. Explain the properties of the baptism. What happened to Cornelius' household and is it still happening today?

When a person believes in Jesus who is the Christ, that He being the one who received payment for our sins and rose bodily from the dead, being at the right hand of God on our behalf. The one believing in Him is born from God, receiving the Spirit of Christ having been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[percho]

That is pretty vague. Explain the properties of the baptism. What happened to Cornelius' household and is it still happening today?

I would say they were indwelt with the Spirit of adoption which will result in the adoption, the redemption of the body at the appearing of Christ or put another way they were sealed with the Holy Spirit the earnest of the promise of redemption of the purchased possession, eternal incorruptible life, in body, at the appearing of Christ.

 

[JD731]

.

When a person believes in Jesus who is the Christ, that He being the one who received payment for our sins and rose bodily from the dead, being at the right hand of God on our behalf. The one believing in Him is born from God, receiving the Spirit of Christ having been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

You know 37818, I do appreciate your response to this op and expressing your beliefs, so do not be offended by what I am going to say. And that is that you did not explain what you mean by the one believing in Jesus Christ having been baptized with the Holy Spirit. I understand believing on Jesus Christ and I understand receiving the Spirit but you have not made clear what you mean by "having been baptized with the Holy Spirit." Can you elaborate on that some? Thanks.

 

[JD731]

I would say they were indwelt with the Spirit of adoption which will result in the adoption, the redemption of the body at the appearing of Christ or put another way they were sealed with the Holy Spirit the earnest of the promise of redemption of the purchased possession, eternal incorruptible life, in body, at the appearing of Christ.

Percho, Let me encourage you here. The scriptures are the mind of God and they are wondrous. They are such that one can never know them and understand the great truths contained therein unless God himself gives us light. Even then he gives the careful student and Spirit filled Christian a little here and a little there as he studies and meditates on these words over a life time. We learn over time to think like God because his thoughts are above our thoughts and his ways above our ways. We must learn his ways and he makes them known to us in his word. His words must be the final arbiter of his truths even over the best teacher the world has produced. The words of all men must be proven by his words.

Having said that. The baptism of the Spirit is God sending his gift of life to us in such abundance that all may receive him by simply trusting in Jesus Christ who through his own sacrifice has taken away that which causes all men to be separated from God and reckoned dead, and that is sin. If God at this time does not impute our personal sins to us while we live here because of Jesus dealing so perfectly with them and putting them away by his one time and for all time sacrifice in his on body for them, then God will delight in anyone coming to him in the name of Jesus and God will give them life, who is the Spirit he has already poured out to indwell their mortal bodies, giving all who receive him the renewing of the image of God, which is trinitarian.Paul preached in Acts 17 to unsaved Athenians that God is not far from any one of us. They could have been saved that day by his preaching, and a few of them were.

Now, when a sinner is saved he is born again and becomes a son of God by birth, not by adoption. However, in the economy of God the heir in the family is the firstborn son.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Jesus Christ is the firstborn son of God when he rose from the dead. This tells us that coming to God from the dead is a birth. This means that Jesus Christ is the legitimate heir of all the Father has.

Ro 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

When you find language like this in the NT you will find the word adoption close by. You must remember that the church is the body of Christ and he is in us and we are in him and we are one with him. Therefore what he has so we have.

Ro 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Adoption is defined above by the scriptures themselves as the redemption of the body, which is it's glorification. Our bodies are the lone entity that connects us with the family of Adam. When our new bodies are created by God and given to us then the connection with Adam is forever severed and God adopts us body soul and Spirit into his family forever

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Inheritance close by.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

I am sure I do not have perfect knowledge in this doctrine and am still learning but I know it has nothing to do with the baptism of the Spirit in it's immediate context. and is a doctrine of the church only.

Adoption seems to be necessary in the mind of God because our new bodies in the family of God are created while the body of Christ was generated.

 

[JD731]

Gentlemen:

If what I have said concerning the Holy Ghost being poured out in such abundance to cover the whole earth, and it is, then it is true that baptism with the Holy Ghost is not an expression of individual salvation or even collective salvation. In fact, it is not an expression of salvation at all. What is meant by the expression of being baptized with the Holy Ghost is the act of God wherein he has sent him as his gift of life and promised that any and all of those who would hear this good news, repent of their sins, and believe the good news that Jesus Christ has taken away their sins, would receive him as the once for all time indwelling life of God in their mortal bodies.

What would be the difference for the man to whom this happened? The differece from that time forward would be that he would be a son of God. God and Jesus Christ would be in him in the person of the Spirit. It would be said of him that he has eternal life. The entrance of the Spirit into a person to dwell is not a baptism, it is a new birth. The Spirit is in the world whether one who hears believes or whether he doesn't. God poured him out from heaven and every time it rains or any time a Christain who has understanding of this great life giving transaction between himself and God will think about it when he turns up a glass of cold water and drinks. The water is the great metaphor of God of life and he wants us to think that way. If one has access to a thousand worlds the size of earth and they were all covered with water and he did not take a drink of the water he would die.

However, the difference between H2O and the Spirit is how often once must drink. The Spirit must be ingested only one time and the man who drinks him in will never thirst again. The water is intended to teach us a spiritual truth. God has given us pictures, parables, similitudes, so we may understand his ways. Water is contained in the clouds that float in the 1st heaven. Yea, the clouds are the water, a picture of the Spirit. God causes it to fall out of the heaven upon the earth in droplets and it happens all over the earth. It comes in far more quantities than is needed and flows in rivers and streams and is in ponds and lakes. It's properties allows for cleansing of people and objects. Three quarters of the earth's surface is covered by water.

Abundance:
Just in case someone thinks I made up the term, "abundance" for the presence on earth of the Spirit, check this out.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

See context - the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness is the same thing.

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

You see how the baptism of the Spirit took place AFTER and BECAUSE of Jesus Christ dealing with the sin of the world on the cross and then rising from the dead in a glorified body. Redeeming the world for Jesus Christ was "the work of God" but the gift came down from God out of heaven.

Now the Spirit was not in the world to indwell people and by doing so to save them before Jesus died and rose again obviously, otherwise why did he do it? And he is not always going to be here. The "day of the Lord" coming will see the Spirit departed with all those he has indwelt that are living at the time and all those who received him by faith will be resurrected from the dead and will be glorified and taken to the Father's house.

The phase "day of the LORD" in prophecy is the beginning of the 1000 year day of Christ on the earth. It begins as a day of darkness until the light of the world, Jesus Christ, comes to establish his kingdom and to kill and destroy all rebels who are left when he comes.


1 Thess 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

2 Thess 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (the rapture of the church) ,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


During the time of the man of sin on the earth after he is revealed IT WILL NOT RAIN ANYWHERE ON THE EARTH. 1260 days without rain.

Re 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Be advised and be warned.

 

[JD731]

It seems there is not much interest in the baptism of the Holy Ghost so I will post a few more amazing truths concerning the subject.

The water baptism of the apostle Paul (before his commission) and his receiving the Holy Ghost.


Following the historical narrative in the record of Luke it can be determined that Paul was converted to the faith in 37 or 38 AD. This would be some three years before Peter used the keys of the kingdom of heaven that had been given to him by Jesus Christ in Matt 16 to open the door of faith to the gentiles. He had opened the door of faith first to his nation in 30 AD, 40 days after the ascension from earth to heaven of Jesus Christ at the Mount of Olives and 50 days after his resurrection from the dead and immediately after the Father poured out the Spirit from heaven. This is referenced as "the beginning" as he testified later to the Jews in Jerusalem concerning his preaching the faith to Cornelius and his household in 40 AD and seeing them receive the Holy ghost by faith in the gospel. This was the beginning of gentiles being saved and added to the church. It was Peter who unlocked the door of faith to both Jews and gentiles, just at different times.


But, the beginning was not only the baptism of the Holy Ghost for that nation but it was the exact time that faith came and replaced the law of Moses as the operative principle of the Divine dealing of God with his people. The baptism with the Holy Ghost and faith came at the exact same time for Israel. It was in Acts 2. Consider this;


Ga 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


These Galatians are the physical seed of Abraham through Isaac. They are the dispersed 10 tribes. This is the reason they are so susceptible to the Judaizers preaching a form of mixing law keeping with the grace of Christ. This is 49 AD.


But they are more than that. They are gentiles in the eyes of God, strangers in a strange land and separated from God and this saving them by giving them the Spirit (Life) individually as they believe the gospel is the wisdom of God of bringing them back to himself and making them his sons in his family by the desire of both God and the individual jointly..


12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Notice the transition. The coming of faith is the principle of the divine dealing of God after he sent his Spirit. Just because the Spirit has been poured out and is present does not mean anyone is saved. They must receive him by faith and through faith in Christ Thus sayeth the scriptures. Who would deny that the principle of God's dealing with Israel until Acts 2 was the law of Moses? And who would deny that God's dealing with the gentile nations human government until Acts 10? He transitioned his ministration of the Spirit to gentiles THROUGH A ROMAN SOLDIER.


22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise (the Spirit = Life) by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards (after the law of Moses as the principle of divine dealing with Israel) be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Ac 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church (at Antioch, Syria) together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.


A reference to Acts 10;

15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;


James speaks about Peter and Acts 10

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,


Well I did not get to Paul's baptism and receiving the Spirit in this post, but I will later.


May God be pleased with my treatment of his most wonderful and marvelous word. Amen!

 

[Dave G]

So, there are two instances so far in history where God baptized with the Holy Ghost, once he baptized Israel in Acts 2, and only Israel were candidates for salvation. No gentiles were saved until Acts 10.

Please take another look at the Scriptures, JD.
There were people outside of the nation of Israel whom God saved, and they were and are many.

For example, Abel is mentioned in Genesis 4 and reinforced in Hebrews 11, and there are others made mention of in Genesis 4:26...those who called upon the name of the Lord.
We are told that Enoch walked with God in Genesis 5:22, and was taken up by the Lord.
Noah, Abraham and many others were also men who trusted the Lord, were used by Him to do many things, and are also mentioned as being of faith in Hebrews 11.

They were all "Gentiles"... as before Abraham's line, there was no Israel in the national sense.

 

[JD731]

Please take another look at the Scriptures, JD.
There were people outside of the nation of Israel whom God saved, and they were and are many.

For example, Abel is mentioned in Genesis 4 and reinforced in Hebrews 11, and there are others made mention of in Genesis 4:26...those who called upon the name of the Lord.
We are told that Enoch walked with God in Genesis 5:22, and was taken up by the Lord.
Noah, Abraham and many others were also men who trusted the Lord, were used by Him to do many things, and are also mentioned as being of faith in Hebrews 11.

They were all "Gentiles"... as before Abraham's line, there was no Israel in the national sense.

Thank you for your comments Dave G. All those who are mentioned in the OT are said to be justified by their faith, that is imputed to them for righteousness. In this manner God has justified guilty sinners who have a death sentence on them because they have wilfffully sinned. To have willful sin is to have the attitudes of reason and logic and a consciousness of right and wrong. Sin is the transgression of the law and choosing to do wrong in spite of knowing better. Only a cognitive person can sin. An animal or a bird or a fish or an infant cannot sin for those reasons.

Justification is not salvation. It is the act of God wherby he has declared the law breaker no longer guilty. Justification preceeds the coming of Jesus Christ to remit sins by shedding his blood, but it is the motivation of God to justify sinners before this.You must understand that all three members of the Godhead has a part in our redemption.

I am not going to wear you out in this post by too much information, but I am going to tell you that salvation is a NT doctrine and it is a "renewal" to the image of God that Adam lost by his first sin, and consequently, lost for all his offspring.Men in the OT are born with a soul and a body but without the Spirit of God. That was the image of Adam after his fall (Ge 5:1), and according to the apostle Paul in Rom 5, sin reigned unto death in all Adams family, every one. Sin is an absolute sovereign and no one until Jesus Christ had power over him until Jesus Christ died, not because he sinned (he was not of the family of Adam) but for the sins of all others, and then rose from the dead. Sin could not chain him to death.

Why does anyone think it is so important to God to have his Spirit indwelling men? He cannot stand in the presence of God unless he is a trinitarian person, having had his catalog of sins washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ, the only thing that can do the job. A saved person is a soul, body, and the Spirit of Christ.This is the reason the justified saints of the OT were in paradise in the center of the earth until the cleansing blood was shed and then applied.

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead (born when the Spirit returned to his body in the tomb), and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (This verse is not even in some of the new Bibles and tghey are corrupt)

The Spirit of God was poured out, first on Israel, then on the world, and he was in such abundance that all who will believe may drink him in, and he will be in them. The image of God is restored and renewed in Adam's offspring and they have a new identity as a son of God. It is a birth. When the new body like the body of Christ is given, then all connection with Adam is taken away, even the possibility of sinning and dying.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (this is trinitarian)

1 Corinthians 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I hope this helps you Dave. Verse 5 above is the definition of salvation in the scriptures. Jesus Christ is now our justification because he has taken our sins with the penalty away and eternal life dwells in our bodies and we can never again be condemned by anything in the Eyes of God, the Judge of the whole earth.

 

[Dave G]

I hope this helps you Dave.

I appreciate your effort, JD, but I don't need any help understanding and believing the words of my Saviour...
He is my Teacher ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

But I do, at times, need to be reminded about certain things He has said, from those very same words.

Justification is not salvation.

Justification is being made just, or righteous, in the eyes of God.
It is part of the "package" that the Lord gives to those who are saved.

For example, all who are justified, were justified by the blood of His Son at the cross.
All who have true faith, are justified;
All who are justified, are saved.

Noah, Enoch, David, Elijah, Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and so forth ( Hebrews 11 ).

 

[Dave G]

Verse 5 above is the definition of salvation in the scriptures.

The definition of salvation is found in many places, JD.
Not the least of which you've already shown part of in your post above...
Romans 8:29-30.

That brings me to a suggestion on my part: Please re-read the book of Romans, my friend;
There really are a lot of details about how and why a person is saved, that I think you're missing.


In addition and to answer the OP question, there's only one baptism of the Spirit.
It comes when a person believes and is sealed with that same Spirit until the day of their redemption ( Ephesians 1).