How much influence does God have in salvation?

[MB]

So?

What I am saying is that for the most part Jews rejected Christ. It is a Calvinist claim that men cannot resist God's will. Yet Jesus said differently.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

This one verse proves men are rebellious and these men rejected Christ' will to gather them as a Hen would gather her chicks.
MB

 

[canadyjd]

What revelation in creation?

Romans 1:20-22 tells us the creation reveals the glory of God and that mankind stands condemned because they have rejected God and worshipped the creature rather than the creator.

 

[MB]

Yes. It is clear to me from Roman's that people are condemned already because they have rejected the general revelation of God found in the creation. Only those who come to faith in Jesus are saved from that condemnation.

You seem to be saying men can reject God's will Because it is the reason God manifested that information in men. Some do seek out the truth.
MB

 

[canadyjd]

Good, godly men have disagreed on his issue for centuries. I'm quite sure we're not going to solve the dilemma here on this thread or any other.


In my opinion, this truth is presented throughout the Word of God.


Interesting thoughts.

I believe the proper application would be to point back to verse 10. We, as Christians, should act and live in such a way that we "adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things." That is, we live in such a way that makes the message of the Saviour attractive to others. Why is that important? Because
"the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men."

Not only does that grace bring salvation to the lost, it also gives the Christian what he needs to live a life pleasing to God which is vital to "adorning" the gospel message.


I couldn't agree more. I don't want anyone to discount my position based solely on my disposition. We often tell on ourselves when we fail to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit of "gentleness."

I will look at Titus again. The "for" could be a focus on all Christians and our behavior, not just slaves. I'll have to find time to meditate on this.

I want to return a compliment to you. I have followed many of your posts without commenting. I have been impressed with your "disposition" and your understanding and passion for scripture.

I have said before that the more I learn the more I realize how little I know. I am willing to be convinced my positions cannot be supported by scripture.

Your manner of debate is much more likely to engage me in thoughtful consideration of your position and re-consideration of mine.

Who knows, maybe a little civility will help me and others to see things in scripture I have never considered before?

Peace to you

 

[Wesley Briggman]

What I am saying is that for the most part Jews rejected Christ. It is a Calvinist claim that men cannot resist God's will. Yet Jesus said differently.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

This one verse proves men are rebellious and these men rejected Christ' will to gather them as a Hen would gather her chicks.
MB

The Jews were still observing the Mosaic Law at this time. Jesus was addressing a group, not individuals.

God did not relate to mankind then as He does now, in the age of grace. The viel had not been rent nor the the Holy Spirit descended.

Not telling you anything you don't already know.

 

[canadyjd]

You seem to be saying men can reject God's will Because it is the reason God manifested that information in men. Some do seek out the truth.
MB

You have misunderstood what I said. I didn't say men could resist God's will in salvation. I said Romans 1 tells us all men have rejected the general revelation of God found in His creation.

 

[Acts1:8not4me]

Most of the folks I know that support the idea of "freewill" will acknowledge God does have some influence on the person being saved. I have a couple of questions I hope you will answer directly.

1. If God desired it, could He assert enough influence on every person to bring them to salvation. This is a question of Gods ability to influence someone, not whether He will actually do it. Is God able to influence every person to come to salvation?

2. Does God use the same amount of influence on every person, or does He use differing amounts of influence on different people?

Certainly God IS able to save EVERYONE. He could have planned that all be saved, Jesus could have paid for every If He did that it would be inconsistent with His plan and Jesus' atonement.

 

[canadyjd]

Certainly God IS able to save EVERYONE. He could have planned that all be saved, Jesus could have paid for every If He did that it would be inconsistent with His plan and Jesus' atonement.

Is His plan only to save some?

 

[Yeshua1]

Most of the folks I know that support the idea of "freewill" will acknowledge God does have some influence on the person being saved. I have a couple of questions I hope you will answer directly.

1. If God desired it, could He assert enough influence on every person to bring them to salvation. This is a question of Gods ability to influence someone, not whether He will actually do it. Is God able to influence every person to come to salvation?

2. Does God use the same amount of influence on every person, or does He use differing amounts of influence on different people?

Paul had no choice to reject the call of Jesus to be His Apostle, as God permitted Paul to have his spiritual ears and eyes opened up, and God does not send saving grace toward s all sinners equally.

 

[canadyjd]

Paul had no choice to reject the call of Jesus to be His Apostle, as God permitted Paul to have his spiritual ears and eyes opened up, and God does not send saving grace toward s all sinners equally.

You said that God does not send saving grace toward all sinners equally.

Does God send some saving grace to every person? Or does God only send saving grace to those He choses and that grace in whatever measure is necessary for each individual?

 

[tyndale1946]

Is His plan only to save some?

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Did he miss one?... Brother Glen

 

[Yeshua1]

You said that God does not send saving grace toward all sinners equally.

Does God send some saving grace to every person? Or does God only send saving grace to those He choses and that grace in whatever measure is necessary for each individual?

God will make sure that all whom He intended to be saved by the death of Christ will get saved!

 

[canadyjd]

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Did he miss one?... Brother Glen

Do you believe all will saved?

 

[tyndale1946]

Do you believe all will saved?

No!... Brother Glen

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.