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Is God all knowing and just sitting in his lazy chair watching the world go by? It's a form of Deism in your question.
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How Should Arminians and Calvinists Approach One Another?
- Thread starter Steven Yeadon
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Is God all knowing and just sitting in his lazy chair watching the world go by? It's a form of Deism in your question.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
The Bible teaches that we are not chosen to salvation merely as an end unto itself, but also that we may be a blessing to others. (John 15:16, Ephesians 2:10, 2 Peter 1:10) John Calvin and Martin Luther believed wholeheartedly in unconditional election, which motivated them in gratitude to be of service to others.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Here's how Arminians and Calvinists should approach one another:
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
2 Timothy 2:23-24
Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Romans 14:1-15:7
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
15 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.” 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
2 Timothy 2:23-24
Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Romans 14:1-15:7
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
15 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.” 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.
5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
I am so tired of sectarianism that, if not for the sake of convenience, I would never call myself a Calvinist.
There's a big difference between joining the Calvinist bandwagon and humbly reading the Bible as the final authority and coming to realize that it happens to agree with Calvinism. If you put the Bible first, and not your sectarian interpretation, then you can continue in peace and fellowship with non-Calvinists.
My only intent in communicating the doctrinal foundations of Calvinism to non-Calvinists has been to avoid being mislabeled as a heretic, not to prod others into joining some sort of bandwagon.
There's a big difference between joining the Calvinist bandwagon and humbly reading the Bible as the final authority and coming to realize that it happens to agree with Calvinism. If you put the Bible first, and not your sectarian interpretation, then you can continue in peace and fellowship with non-Calvinists.
My only intent in communicating the doctrinal foundations of Calvinism to non-Calvinists has been to avoid being mislabeled as a heretic, not to prod others into joining some sort of bandwagon.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Humble Disciple
Active Member
There are so many Bible verses supporting the five points of Calvinism that the only reason why people reject it is because it causes them to question the character of God.
John Piper says it's better to be a good Christian that rejects Calvinism if believing in doctrines like unconditional election would make you think less of God.
John Piper says it's better to be a good Christian that rejects Calvinism if believing in doctrines like unconditional election would make you think less of God.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Humble Disciple
Active Member
George Whitefield and John Wesley accomplished great things together because they were able to agree to disagree on predestination, and I believe that's the model of how Calvinists and Arminians should approach one another. If anyone asks me what kind of a Calvinist I am, I am a George Whitefield Calvinist.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
While the sign at the gate to heaven says “Whosoever will may come,” the other side says “Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.”
This is not a contradiction because, according to John 6:37, you cannot come to Jesus unless granted to Him by the Father, and none who come will be turned away.
This is not a contradiction because, according to John 6:37, you cannot come to Jesus unless granted to Him by the Father, and none who come will be turned away.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
No one looks at scripture from an entirely neutral viewpoint. That's why it's good to get various perspectives. While the Bible itself is infallible, our interpretations are not.
You spend way too much time worrying about what others think of you. Hold to scripture and be sharpened by the varying arguments. It's not like this place is a battle ground between mortal enemies. As far as I know, everyone here holds to Christ as the means of reconciliation with God. Our differences generally lie in how much humans "assist" God in that reconciliation.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
I'm not worried about what others think of me. I'm worried about other Christians not being able to get along, thus making Christians look like fools in the eyes of the unbelieving world, and Satan getting his way when unbelievers turn away from Christ because of it.
If you are Calvinist, you realize that all unredeemed people consider the gospel to be foolishness.
The question is: Are Christians, as a whole, looked at like the Jews in Rome were looked at?
Are Christians judging the unsaved while doing the same things?
Romans 2:17-24 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
Humble Disciple
Active Member
It was from reading Mark Driscoll, a Calvinist, that I learned the devil is the only winner when Christians snipe at each other over issues that have nothing to do with what's essential to salvation, thus making us look like fools in the eyes of the unbelieving world. Jesus said that they will know we are His disciples by our love, not the exactness of our theology.
Do you think there are a lot of unbelievers here at the BB? Do you think we all bring the arguments of other denominations to the unregenerate masses?
Finally, do you advocate a limp wristed faith for the sake of the unredeemed?
Humble Disciple
Active Member
I accomplished everything I intended to accomplish in removing the blinders of anti-Calvinists, and now I'm doing the same for the other side, to the glory of God alone. Are we not all brothers and sisters in Christ?
LOL, indeed you need to change your first name to Prideful.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
The one thing I strongly dislike about Calvinism, at least as it exists today, is it seems to be more motivated by fear of being labeled as Pelagian or of not conforming to group identity than it is by an open-minded and honest obedience to scripture, wherever it might lead.
This can be seen especially today in the criticism Matt Chandler has received for even daring to deviate from the expectations of fellow Calvinists on issues like continuationism and racial injustice.
This can be seen especially today in the criticism Matt Chandler has received for even daring to deviate from the expectations of fellow Calvinists on issues like continuationism and racial injustice.
You have no understanding of Calvinism. Your support of synchronism has been consistent.
Humble Disciple
Active Member
Why do modern-day Calvinists insist on breaking the the ninth commandment for any preacher or theologian who disagrees with their theology, by falsely accusing them of Pelagianism?
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