How should we respond to the shooting at the H/S shooting in Colorado?

[Reynolds]

Did God Allow this
Or did the god of this world see to it that it happened?

You would have to move to C vs A section to properly debate that.

 

[Reynolds]

why would we delight in people being killed. no matter who they are.

was their no hope of redemption? I know many a former lesbian or gay people who have repented and come to christ, and are now happily married with children, who have repented of their former lifestyle. some even are deacons or church leaders.

what if they were killed when they still lived that lifestyle. would that be justice?

and people wonder why the church is so hated...

Jesus said we would be hated. If you are not Hated you are not His.

 

[KenH]

if this is true, all the atrocities of Hitler. Stalin, and the other evil dictators where God's fault.. Because these men had no free will. they did what God told them to do.

The alternative is that God knew Hitler, Statlin, and the other evil dictators were going to commit atrocities and just sat back and let it happen, even though He could have prevented it. And that smacks of Deism.

 

[kyredneck]

Did God Allow this
Or did the god of this world see to it that it happened?

IMO, it's incomplete stuck out there alone...

4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus` sake.
6 Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4

 

[Reynolds]

Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’ Ezekiel 33:11

The question is whether a Christian (not a professing "Christian" but one that is truly born again) is able to delight in the death of the wicked.

In some circumstances I can see how Christians can rejoice in the liberation that comes from the death of wicked men. But can they truly delight in the death of the person (rather than the results)?

I'm not sure of the answer, but I suspect it goes to the heart of the person.

You were once as guilty as those who died at the LGBTQ club. Had you died in an automobile accident before being saved, should Christians have delighted in your death?

These are questions we should ask ourselves because they reveal our hearts. Are we recreated in the image of Christ, Who prayed for the wicked men that crucified Him? Are we made anew in the Spirit of the One who went to His death as a Lamb led to the slaughter? Are we remade in the image of the One Who delights not in the death of the wicked?

These are important questions (questions between us and God) because many will believe with a dead, worthless faith. And on that day many will say "Lord, Lord" only to hear the words "I never knew you".

We don't question one another's salvation because we cannot know. That isn't our place. Even in church discipline, when a member is cast out, it is about sin and not determining the salvation of another.

But circumstances such as this are a perfect time for us to examine our own hearts to see if we are among the elect, to test ourselves by the standard of the One in Whose image we are reborn.

You did bring Up Grants, I mean Jackson's highly Calvinistic position. Does it matter when a person dies, or is election vs non election all that matters?
I have my C hat on today.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus said we would be hated. If you are not Hated you are not His.

its one thing to be hated because you love God, and are his child

its another thing to be hated because you have a pharisee attitude.

Jesus said he did not come to judge but to save.

 

[Robert Baker (Bob)]

Had they not been there, they would not have been shot. Kitchen or bathroom is totally irrelevant.

Sometimes we grieve with those who grieve. Sometimes we delight in justice for the wicked.

Had they not been there, they would not have been shot. Kitchen or bathroom is totally irrelevant.

Sometimes we grieve with those who grieve. Sometimes we delight in justice for the wicked.

Pro 24:17-18
17) Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
18) Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The alternative is that God knew Hitler, Statlin, and the other evil dictators were going to commit atrocities and just sat back and let it happen, even though He could have prevented it. And that smacks of Deism.

God could have prevented it.

that does not mean he will..

if he took our free will from us, and gave us everything we wanted, who would ever desire to follow him when he called?

 

[KenH]

if he took our free will from us, and gave us everything we wanted, who would ever desire to follow him when he called?

God never "took" free will from us. We never had free will. We are nothing but clay. God is the Potter.

 

[KenH]

God could have prevented it.

that does not mean he will..

So you are a Deist, then?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God never "took" free will from us. We never had free will. We are nothing but clay. God is the Potter.

Yeah we do have free will

did you read that passage in the old testament?

Jer 18:
3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the a]">[a]wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

11 “Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.” ’ ”

Free will 101

He will punish, but if they repent, he will not punish.

he will bless. but if they turn evil, he will punish..

the clay became marred in his hand,, He did not destroy it..

Jesus also said to jerusalem. how often he wanted to take them under him, but they were not willing.. again free will

you can't have love or a relationship apart from free will. you have a dictatorship

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you are a Deist, then?

I am a truthist.

God did not make Hitler do evil. He allowed him to do it..God is not the author of Evil

if that makes me a deist then so be it

I do not put people under names, it never helps in a conversation, but causes to much assuming

 

[Reynolds]

its one thing to be hated because you love God, and are his child

its another thing to be hated because you have a pharisee attitude.

Jesus said he did not come to judge but to save.

He did plenty of judging.

 

[KenH]

Yeah we do have free will

No, we don't. I don't even want it.

We have totally different and opposing hermeneutics. I start with the Biblical premise that God is absolutely, totally sovereign and read the Bible with that as an overarching principle. You start with the man-centered premise that human beings are absolutely, totally sovereign within their sphere of activity and you read the Bible with that as an overarching principle.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He did plenty of judging.

who did he judge? The saved or the lost?

did he go to the sinner when he was here and judge them, and kill them?

the harlot by the law should have been stoned. did he stone her? or did he say let he who has no sin cast the first stone?

 

[KenH]

God did not make Hitler do evil. He allowed him to do it..God is not the author of Evil

if that makes me a deist then so be it

Thank you for admitting to being a Deist.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, we don't. I don't even want it.

We have totally different and opposing hermeneutics. I start with the Biblical premise that God is absolutely, totally sovereign and read the Bible with that as an overarching principle. You start with the man-centered premise that human beings are absolutely, totally sovereign within their sphere of activity and you read the Bible with that as an overarching principle.

your right, we have totally different hermenuetics

You claim God is a dictator who ties strings to everyone and makes them do what he wants, basically the same lie that Got Satan to pull a 1/3 of the angels with him

I see God as a loving God who wants to give and give and give, Yet wants a relationship. so he gives people the freedom to do what they want to do..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for admitting to being a Deist.

I have no problem admitting to being a person who treats God as who he says he is.. not someone who does not

 

[KenH]

I see God as a loving God who wants to give and give and give, Yet wants a relationship. so he gives people the freedom to do what they want to do..

Your idea of God is one that is down on His hands and knees begging His creation to love Him, to have a relationship with Him, crying, "Please, or please, let me save you. Please, oh please, love Me. Oh, why won't You love Me? Oh, why, why, why?"

Your idea of God is basically no different than the gods of Greek mythology.

 

[DaveXR650]

Even this became a C/A debate. @Salty if you were trying to make a point consider it made.