How Some Premils create Mortal Christians

Frogman,

Premillers fail to see that David's earthly kingdom, reign and throne was only an imperfct type of Christ' heavenly kingdom, reign and throne. They fail to fully understand that we have moved away from the Old Testament shaow and type into the fullness of the New Tesament reality.

The Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom and incorporates the whole domain over which the Lord Jesus Christ exercises His Divine Kingship, dominin and intimate rule. It includes heaven(and all those who are in heaven), the place where with the kingdom is centered and administrated. That is why Matthew rightly frequently described the kingdom of God as the Kngdom of heaven. NOwwithstanding, it also include the full extent of true Church, the spiritual temple of God or the body of Chrs, on earth. It i therefore the whol realm in which the rule of man becomes th rule of God; it is the area where the law of God and of righteousness is pre-eminent. Romans 14:17-18 says, "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in tese things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approvedof men."

When Christ appeared at His frst advent, the Jews imagined, like you, Hewould reinstate the now defunt earthy throne of Israel and reign victorious over the physical nation. Luke 17:20-21 records about between Christ and the Pharisees on the subject of the kingdom of God, saying, He was "demand of he Pharisees, when the kingdom of od would come." Then, Jesus answered to them, "The kingdom of God cometh NOT with observation: Neithr shallthey say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU."

The Lord reveald, in his response, that the kingdom of God - His Kingdom - wa not a literal earthly domain neither could it be viewed like other kingdoms with their outward splendour, impressive power and magnitude. It was rather, a spirital Kigdom, which could only be spiritually entered.The Kingdom of God is not a physical temporal kingdom that can be naturally observed or enjoyed but rather a spiitual kingdom, which is spiritally entered.

John Gill spoken on this passage,

Before Jesus was sentenced to death by crucify, He said to Pilate, " 'My kingdom isno ofthis world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.'Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, 'Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into te world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that i of the truth heareth my voice.'"- John 18:36-37

No longer would God's kingdom be restricted to the physical ntion of Israel. From now on it would be open to a spiritual nation, comprised of people from all nations, kindred's and tongues.

Jesus told to the Jews in Matt 21:42-44, saying, "Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the sae is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing,and it is God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forh the fuits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it wil grind him to powder."

The physicl dimension of the kindom hadnow beome a siritual one in which Christ would be the sole King. 1 Cor. 4:20 says, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power."

The KIngdom of God exists wherever the King- the Lord Jsus Christ - exercises His intimat spiritual jurisdiction. His Kingdom embodies all those who posses the indwelling Holy Spirit - those who are bon-agai of the Spirit of God. Christ's Kingdom is therefore found wherever there are citizens of that kingdom.

Today, may Christians, like many Jews are mitakenly looking forward to a physical reign of Christ on this sin-cursed earth. Such people, who call themselves Premillennialists, believe that Christ will set up an eartly Kingdom which will be establish on the atual city of Jerusalem. They believe that it is only at hi stage that He will finally reign over His enemies and rule over the nations. However, Crist is NOT coming to reign over HIs enemies; He is coming to destroy them!

I am sure that some of Premillers use Acts 15:16 to refer with Amos 9:11 to prove there will be a literal physically temple to be rebuilt again, so King David would sit on the throne to eign over them future millennial kingdom.

The context of Acts 15:13-19 tell us, that James declared to them about Jesus Christ. He said, "Simeon(Peter) hth declared ho God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out f them people fo his name. And to this agree the wods of the prophets; as it is written, After this I wil return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again theruis thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men migh seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is clled, aith the Lord,who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works fro the beginning of the world. Wherefore my setece is, that we trouble not them, which among the Gentiles are turned to God"

The tabernacle of David - not a literal physical builing as future temle, but it is a spiritual temple.

When Jesus was on earth, He said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will rasie it up." - John 2:19. He spoken of his body as He is the temple.

In the Old Testament, King David is a physical king,, but not spiritual, he was a type of Christ as king. In the New Testament, Jesus is both literal physical and spiritul as King.

You asked me, When was David's throne in Heaven? After Jesus' resurrection, He went up to heaven sitteth on the right hand of God, the Father. - Acts 2:30,34 "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would RAISE UP Christ to sit on his throne; For David is not ascended into the heaves: but he saith himsef, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand."

Christ is now sitting on the throne in heaven.He is reigning both heaven and on earth since resurrection. He will continue reign til Second Advent, also, He would remain always reign on earth in physical froever and ever after the Second Advent.

True, David will reign with us on earth after the Second Advent.But David is not our King. Jesus Christ is our King.

You have to understand that there are shadows and types in the Old Testament are now fulfilled through Jesus Christ at Calvary - Col. 2:17; & Heb. 8:5.

David - Jesus
Temple - Jesus
Lamb - Jesus

While Christ was on the cross, he said, "IT IS FINISHED." - John 19:30 means all prophecies of the O.T. are fulfilled concerning on Him, and He ended the sacrifices, offerings, and eonm of the Old Testament. Now we are no longer under the old covenant. Now, we are under new covenant through Calvary.

We do not need another future sacrifice and offering again anymore. Because Jesus is now our Lamb, and also, He is our temple.


Luke 1:32 - the angel told to Mary, that Jesus will be the great king, and He shall sit on the throne of David.

You asked me, who shall be great? My answer is Lord Jesus Christ! You asked me, whose throne is He given? My answer is, God given Throne to Jesus! You asked me, when was David's throne in heaven? My answer is after Jesus' resurrection.

We must be realized that King David is a type of the Lord Jesus Christ.

None anywhere in the Old Testment saying, the Lord shall reign on earth for a thousand years after His coming. All scriptures tell us that Christ is now reigning, and wil continue to reign forever and ever without end. Amen.

Soldier of Christ
2 Tim. 2:3 - Amen!


James peached as he quote from Amos 9:11-12

 

Understand, Luke 1:32 is a heavenly kingdom,and 'his father David' is type for Jesus Christ as our King. We know David is a real person, when he was lived in the Old Testament time. He did reigned Israel as King about 900 B.C. He reigned Israel in physical. But, when the shadow of the prophecies like as tabernacle, covenant of the ark, sacrifice, David, temple, etc. of the Old Testament are now fulfilled by Jesus Christ that he is the shadow of these things. Now we are no longer to use physcial things like as offerings, sacrifices, temple building, earthly king, etc. Now we have spiritual things through Jesus Christ. Because Christ now dwell in us as He is our Temple as the Holy Spirit dwells in us.

We do not wait for King David to sit on the throne to reign. We now have King - Jesus Christ. Christ does not replace David. David is a type of Jesus Christ.

You ask me, how did David sit on it? You have to understand that David is a type for Jesus Christ.

When Christ raise from the dead, God hath exalteth Christ to sit on the throne and reigning us in heaven and earth. He is currently reigning us right now.

On Luke 2:25. When baby Jess was bring to temple according to the custom of the Law. Simeon, the priest who was waiting for the redemption of Israel as he was looking forward for the King come to reign in Jerusalem. The Holy Spirit came upon Simeon, gave comfort and peace upon him. Simeon said, "For mine sees have seen thy salvation.' - vs. 30 Look verse 32 says, "A light to ligthen the Gentiles,and the glory of thy people of thy people Israel." The gospel is now spread shine over the Gentiles include Israel. Because Jesus Christ is the Light, and He brings salvation to the world through Calvary. It already fulfilled 2000 years. The gospel is now spreading over the world today.

You ask me what about verse 34.

Notice it says, "this CHILD is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against:"

It tells us, that, Jesus Christ is the King shall reign Israel even now he is reigning over Israel, but not just for Israel only, also over the world.

John 18:36 - Jesus speaks of heavenily kingdom, not earthly kingdom. 'This world' is an evil system that Satan is the prince or god of this world. This world is not belong to Christ. Jesus speaks of heavenily kingdom, that we are within it through Holy Spirit.

Kingdom of God/Kingdom of heaven is present within us since after resurrection fo Christ, because the Holy Spirit now dwell in us, and we are spreading the gospel across the world.

Also, when Jesus comes again, He shall reign on earth in physical forever and ever.

Soldier of Christ
2 Tim. 2:3- Amen!

 

Ed,

Christ does not have three kingdoms. Christ only have ONE kingdom.

Both Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Heaven are same and ONE kingdom.

Soldier of Christ
2 Tim. 2:3 - Amen!

 

I am very busy to get ready for the weekend trip north to Upper Peninsula - Michigan this weekend. With my friend to see autumn color, and go to Mackinaw Island.

I will return to the computer and to reply back to you on this Tuesday.

Soldier of Christ
2 Tim. 2:3 Amen!

 

Bro. Ed,

Thanks!!! God bless you!

 

Askjo,

That is correct. Both all pretribbers and posttribbers agree with you, it is the "Second Coming".

Please show me where ONE verse in the Bible saying Rapture will be occur 7 years earlier BEFORE the coming of Christ?

1 Thess 4:15-17 do not saying that Christ shall come BEFORE tribulation.

Didn't you know that there are samiliar or compasion between Matt 24:29-30 & 1 Thess 4:15-17?

I make a chart on the compasion of Matt 24:29-30 & 1 Thess 4:15-17:

"Coming" - Matt. 24:30
"Coming" - 1 Thess 4:15

"Heaven" - Matt. 24:30
"Heaven" - 1 Thess. 4:16

"Clouds" - Matt. 24:30
"Clouds" - 1 Thess. 4:17

"Angels' - Matt. 24:31
"Archangel" - 1 Thess. 4:16(clear in 2 Thess 1:7)

"Sound" - Matt 24:31
"Shout" - 1 Thess. 4:16

"Trumpet" - Matt. 24:31
"Trump" - 1 Thess. 4:16

"Elect" - Matt. 24:31
"In Christ" - 1 Thess. 4:16

"Together" - Matt. 24:31
"Together" - 1 Thess. 4:17

"Wind" - Matt. 24:31
"Air" - 1 Thess. 4:17

Clear, the comparison of Matt. 24:30-31 and 1 Thess. 4:15-17 both are same.

If you disagree that there is a comparison of both passages are same. Then, tell me, why do you not agree on that.

Apostle Paul wrote 1 Thess. 4:15-17 by through the revelation.

In Gal. 1:12 tells us, that Paul wrote by received the words from Jesus Christ by though the revelation. Revelation is a supernatural communicate between God and man.

That how Paul recieved the words of 1 Thess. 4:15-17 come from Christ's word through the revelation.

There is no scripture saying that our gathering together shall be before tribulation. Matt 24:29-31 tells us, that our gathering together shall be AFTER tribulation at His coming.


Please prove me, why do you think 'Kingdom of God' & 'Kingdom of Heaven' are differ?

Soldier of Christ
2 Tim. 2:3 - Amen!

[ October 13, 2003, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: DeafPosttrib ]

 

Ed,

You still always separate verse 31 from Matt 24:29-30 often. You emphasis that verse 31 is "pretrib" rapture. But, Jesus does not saying our gathering together shall be before tribulation.

Why cannot you accept the clear lecture from Jesus Christ that He is coming back to gathering us together after the tribulaion of Matt 24:29-31?

You won't admit that you are wrestling with Matt 24:29-31 clearly tell us, that He is coming again to gathring us together AFTER the tribulation.

The context of Matt 24:32-44 speak about being to be prepare for His coming, that we must be ready for His coming. Matt 24:32-44 do not saying anything about pretrib nothing at all.

Soldier of Christ
2 Tim. 2:3 - Amen!

 

Martyr,

I do have lot of pretrib books such as Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, Dwight Pentacost, John R. Rice, Tim LaHaye, etc...

I know pretrib doctrine very well, because I am ex-pretrib.

I heard David Jeremiah before. I did notice his book - 'Escape the Coming Night' at the Christian Bookstore, but I didn't buy Jeremiah's book. I do have lot of pretrib books in my library. I do not mind that I would buy Jeremiah's book. If you want me to buy and read this book, I would be glad to. I am going to buy this book during this week as I can do it.

Yet, all pretrib books cannot convince me to change my belief from posttrib to my former belief - pretrib again. Because I already set my belief what I believe according to the Bible, what it saying so. I prefer follow the Bible than men's teaching - Col. 2:8.

I ask you a question.

Please show me where ONE verse in the Bible saying Rapture shall occur 3 1/2 or 7 years earlier BEFORE the Second Advent?

Soldier of Christ
2 Tim. 2:3

By the way, why you decide to named your username or nickname - "Martyr"?

Aren't we differ from 'saints' of Rev. 13:7?