how to become a baptist?

[Ben1445]

@John of Japan is partially correct.

Immersion is important, but so is de-immersion. If you don't come back up you are not a real Baptist.

Yeah at that point you would have passed on and not become a Baptist.

 

[John of Japan]

Small world, that was the Church where I was baptized! Right off Raleigh-Millington rd. There is still a Church there and it is still IFB (and KJVO). My wife and I stopped by there some years ago and talked to some of the members who were working on the property. I believe it is called "New Hope Baptist Church" but I am not sure if this is an entirely new church or the same congregation with a different name?

To my knowledge, Southside BC ceased to exist, maybe as a judgment from God about how they treated my Dad. (One leader against my Dad died of cancer, another in a car accident, etc.) So probably New Hope BC just bought the building. We lived in the parsonage back on the property, which was 7 acres then.

I was there in 1983 when Ed Morris was pastor and he was the one who baptized me. Michael Pearl was the pastor before him and he was still in the area running a coffee house on Navy Road reaching out to young Sailors such as myself. Bro. Pearl seemed like a really nice guy but I was told he was really "out there" with his doctrine but not really certain how or where at the time. I did some "guitar picking" with him a couple of times and he showed me a few Beatles songs that he rewrote with Christian lyrics.

Hey, I play the guitar too! Beatles songs with Christian lyrics--good one! The typical IFB would reject that, but most wouldn't know the tunes--and the Beatles were good at composing melodies! I once sat in a Ramen shop with a very fundamental missionary, and a Beatles song was being played by an orchestra over the intercom, and he said, "Nice music." I didn't have the heart to tell him!

One of my best friends during that time was a black Marine who also attended the church. There was quite a bit of prejudice regarding "mixed marriages" and I think they pretty much made it clear that they were not welcome there. One married sailor spent several weeks trying really hard to befriend the rest of us and become a part of the Church while he was waiting for his wife who was arriving later. When we finally met her, she was a very pretty black lady (he was white) and that was the last we ever heard of them! They actually had me believing that mixed marriages were sinful which later prevented me from marrying a beautiful Filipina lady I would meet a couple years later. God has a real sense of humor though because he brought her right back into my life after the divorce from my first wife and we have now been married for 12 years!

There was such prejudice all over the Southland back in those days. But it sounds like God has blessed you. I've had dear friends who were in a Japanese-American marriage. Sometimes it works and sometimes doesn't. The key, as you know, is understanding the marriage partner's culture.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

@John of Japan is partially correct.

Immersion is important, but so is de-immersion. If you don't come back up you are not a real Baptist.

ROFL! Yes, I am certainly thankful the pastor allowed me to get back up!

 

[John of Japan]

Yeah at that point you would have passed on and not become a Baptist.

I had a pastor friend who went on a trip, and his assistant baptized for the first time. He goofed, and said the words while holding the old guy under. When the pastor came back, he said, "Are you glad you're baptized?" The old guy said, "I'm just happy to be alive!"

 

[Ben1445]

I had a pastor friend who went on a trip, and his assistant baptized for the first time. He goofed, and said the words while holding the old guy under. When the pastor came back, he said, "Are you glad you're baptized?" The old guy said, "I'm just happy to be alive!"

I’m glad to hear that everyone survived.

Maybe it should be a requirement to have a lifeguard on site in case anyone needs first aid.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

To my knowledge, Southside BC ceased to exist, maybe as a judgment from God about how they treated my Dad. (One leader against my Dad died of cancer, another in a car accident, etc.) So probably New Hope BC just bought the building. We lived in the parsonage back on the property, which was 7 acres then.

I was there almost 20 years after your father had been gone so likely a completely different crowd although I am not sure when Michael Pearl or Ed Morris began their pastorates or if either had anything to do with the "hostile takeover" of the Church?

Hey, I play the guitar too! Beatles songs with Christian lyrics--good one! The typical IFB would reject that, but most wouldn't know the tunes--and the Beatles were good at composing melodies! I once sat in a Ramen shop with a very fundamental missionary, and a Beatles song was being played by an orchestra over the intercom, and he said, "Nice music." I didn't have the heart to tell him!

Playing guitar helped me to see that they were somewhat real and this helped to keep me around. I was beginning to have my eyes on some really cute girls from the Pentecostal Church on the other side of town and even though I knew they were heretics (Legitimately - UPCI), that alone was a strong temptation! No pretty girls going to Southside - just a bunch of ugly sailor dudes!

There was such prejudice all over the Southland back in those days. But it sounds like God has blessed you. I've had dear friends who were in a Japanese-American marriage. Sometimes it works and sometimes doesn't. The key, as you know, is understanding the marriage partner's culture.

God most certainly has and the crazy thing about it is no one would actually take issue with Whites and Filipinos (or any other Asian) together - just blacks with whites! I just concluded if it was sinful for a White man to marry a black woman, it would have been equally sinful for me to marry a Filipina.

 

[Ben1445]

Hey, I play the guitar too! Beatles songs with Christian lyrics--good one! The typical IFB would reject that, but most wouldn't know the tunes--and the Beatles were good at composing melodies! I once sat in a Ramen shop with a very fundamental missionary, and a Beatles song was being played by an orchestra over the intercom, and he said, "Nice music." I didn't have the heart to tell him!

There are a lot of orchestrations that calm down or clean up modern songs.
The difficulty is that the tunes bring back to mind the words that are not worth thinking about. I much prefer to leave all of it alone myself. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[John of Japan]

I was there almost 20 years after your father had been gone so likely a completely different crowd although I am not sure when Michael Pearl or Ed Morris began their pastorates or if either had anything to do with the "hostile takeover" of the Church?

Don't know. The name "Ed Morris" sounds familiar. There was one young man (him? don't know) who was with the opposition, but when he became a pastor himself he saw how wrong he had been and wrote a letter of apology to Dad--which didn't impress Dad much.

Playing guitar helped me to see that they were somewhat real and this helped to keep me around. I was beginning to have my eyes on some really cute girls from the Pentecostal Church on the other side of town and even though I knew they were heretics (Legitimately - UPCI), that alone was a strong temptation! No pretty girls going to Southside - just a bunch of ugly sailor dudes!

Yeah, I remember playing and singing a love song to a Lutheran girl around a campfire. She eventually dumped me and ended up marrying a Church of Christ preacher. Go figure.

God most certainly has and the crazy thing about it is no one would actually take issue with Whites and Filipinos (or any other Asian) together - just blacks with whites! I just concluded if it was sinful for a White man to marry a black woman, it would have been equally sinful for me to marry a Filipina.

Strangely, that seems to be true of Americans. Japanese, though, criticize any Japanese marrying any foreigner. Very nationalistic country.

 

[Mathetes66]

Denominationalism is not something of God in my opinion. The Methodists follow the methodism of John Wesley. Lutherans follow the teachings of Martin Luther. When Luther found out people were trying to make a 'Lutheran' church, this is what he said: "Dirty maggot fodder that I am, that any man should call the church of Jesus Christ after my name. For we have only One Head, even Jesus Christ."

I was led to Christ through studying God's Word and being convicted by the Holy Spirit. I repented of my sins & placed my faith in the Lord & Savior, Jesus Christ. I was discipled & led others to Christ. I got water baptized in a Southern Baptist denomination. When the pastor then said I needed to go through a membership class before I could be a member of the church. I told him with all respect that when I repented & put my faith & trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, He baptized me into the body of Christ in the Holy Spirit, His body & I was already a member of Christ's one body, one flock, one true church. But that I would be more than happy to serve in that local fellowship of believers of the one body of Christ in the Spirit. He said he had not thought of this before but it was biblical. I have fellowshiped with the believing saints in many local congregations & home church fellowships & presently attend a nondenominational local body of believers in Christ & serve there.

I Cor 12:12-20,24-27 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13For IN ONE SPIRIT WE WERE ALL BAPTIZED INTNE BODY—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and ALL were made to drink of one Spirit. 14For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, yet ONE BODY. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. 27Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

Eph 4:1-7 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2with all humility & gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3eager to maintain THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT in the bond of peace. 4There is ONE body & ONE Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, 6ONE God & Father of all, who is over all & through all & in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. This is the Scriptural doctrinal statement of faith.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about OUR COMMON SALVATION, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to CONTEND FOR THE FAITH THAT WAS ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS.

I Cor 1:10-13 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree & that there be NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU, but that you be united in the same mind & the same judgment. 11For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13IS CHRIST DIVIDED? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Eph 2:17-22 And he came & preached peace to you who were far off & peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access IN ONE SPIRIT TO THE FATHER. 19So then you are no longer strangers & aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints & MEMBERS OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD, 20built on the foundation of the apostles & prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being BUILT TOGETHER INTO A DWELLING PLACE FOR GOD IN THE SPIRIT.

In Scripture there is only one body, one household of God, one church. When the church is mentioned, it is mentioned as 'the church at...." Location of local bodies of believers gathered in a certain location BUT ONLY ONE BODY OF CHRIST.

Mt 16:15-18 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build MY CHURCH & the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[Sinner]

By immersion, or you're not a Baptist.

That is exactly what happened to famous Baptist missionary Adoniram Judson on the ship over to India. He planned to work with Baptist William Carey, so he wanted to be able to convince Carey to become Congregationalist, but instead became a Baptist himself!

Or did the baptist mission pay more than the congregational mission? A question I have thought of but don’t know the answer. Does any historian have access to that information?

 

[John of Japan]

Or did the baptist mission pay more than the congregational mission? A question I have thought of but don’t know the answer. Does any historian have access to that information?

That's a good question. Don't know! Generally missionary biographies and mission histories don't have that information. But I'll say this, I've never known a missionary who thought he had enough support!

 

[YeshuaistheLord]

Being a newbie to this forum, I respect the idea that there is a “Baptist only” section, but I have to admit the lively debates are intriguing and look like a lot of fun.

So if I may ask, because I have only attended a Baptist church once (and that was when I was about 11 years old), (now 70) how does someone actually become a Baptist as opposed to some other kind (not real sure what word to use there) of Christian? Are there Baptists and then just “generic Christians,” or is that the wrong way to think about it? Do you have to have a certain kind of baptism to be considered Baptist or is in a name brand?

I’m asking genuinely, not trying to stir the pot. I’d just like to understand how Baptists see this.

Usually refers to Christians who have accepted the distinctive Baptists doctrines

 

[Armchair Apologist]

But I'll say this, I've never known a missionary who thought he had enough support!

There is truth here but I am also becoming wary of some who would like to "support" you who will attach a few "strings" or perhaps would like to exert their influence or whatever? Like the example of a "Seven page questionaire" regarding certain "Hobby Horse" positions (Stand on the KJV, women wearing britches, acceptable music, entertainment, etc.) that should raise a flag that perhaps such "support" may be more trouble than the actual benefit you would receive?

 

[Ben1445]

There is truth here but I am also becoming wary of some who would like to "support" you who will attach a few "strings" or perhaps would like to exert their influence or whatever? Like the example of a "Seven page questionaire" regarding certain "Hobby Horse" positions (Stand on the KJV, women wearing britches, acceptable music, entertainment, etc.) that should raise a flag that perhaps such "support" may be more trouble than the actual benefit you would receive?

It sounds like those are people whose conscience would be offended by things that they believe are wrong. So given that perspective, it seems reasonable to me that they would want to avoid supporting what they consider sin.
On those grounds, I would say that it is better not to offend them. I would say take the high road and don’t offend their conscience, whether that means accepting or rejecting support.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

It sounds like those are people whose conscience would be offended by things that they believe are wrong. So given that perspective, it seems reasonable to me that they would want to avoid supporting what they consider sin.
On those grounds, I would say that it is better not to offend them. I would say take the high road and don’t offend their conscience, whether that means accepting or rejecting support.

Yes, it goes both ways.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I don't think this has been brought up yet but I would say it is quite important for you to learn to either make barbeque (Tri-Tip on the West Coast, Brisket in Texas, pulled pork in Memphis, etc), fried chicken and catfish, and (most importantly) some NANNER PUDDIN! Perhaps add in some peach cobbler as well - especially if you have Blue Bell Ice Cream!

Yeah, I'd say if you showed up to one of our Pot-Lucks with such items, we'd probably extend the right hand of fellowship even if you were baptized the wrong way!

 

[rockytopva]

"Some call Me Anabaptist." - John Bunyan

I was Baptized three times...

Freewill Baptist
GARBC Baptist
Pentecostal Holiness

What that makes me I don't know. But as a teenager I did not mind a bit. Especially getting baptized in an actual river. I would call myself a Charles Stanley type Baptist. Charles Stanley's grandfather, the Rev. George Washington Stanley, a founding pastor and church planner in the Pentecostal Holiness Church.

 

[David Lamb]

Or did the baptist mission pay more than the congregational mission? A question I have thought of but don’t know the answer. Does any historian have access to that information?

I doubt that pay would have been his concern. This website: https://judsoncollege.com/for-the-cause-of-christ-a-biography-of-adoniram-judson/ says of Judson:

"He sacrificed everything for the cause of Christ, influencing modern missions with a legacy marked by great sacrifice."

About the change from Congregational to Baptist, the same site says:

"During the many months it took them to arrive at their final destination, Ann and Adoniram came to a difficult conclusion. Through studying the Scriptures, they became convinced that baptism by immersion for professing Christians was the only form of baptism prescribed by Scripture. This conviction separated the Judsons from their original denomination as well as their fellow missionaries, leaving them reliant on the American Baptists who were wholly unaware of the situation."

 

[John of Japan]

There is truth here but I am also becoming wary of some who would like to "support" you who will attach a few "strings" or perhaps would like to exert their influence or whatever? Like the example of a "Seven page questionaire" regarding certain "Hobby Horse" positions (Stand on the KJV, women wearing britches, acceptable music, entertainment, etc.) that should raise a flag that perhaps such "support" may be more trouble than the actual benefit you would receive?

That's exactly what I got one time, a 7 page questionnaire from a supporting church with stuff like you mentioned. As soon as I saw it I knew that support was going to disappear and the friendship with the pastor was over, but I answered the whole thing as a matter of principle. I had taken their support for a few months, and there is a responsibility for accountability if you receive support. The questions were like, "Do your children play with children who play with Masters of the Universe?" "Do you preach against commercial television?"

 

[John of Japan]

I doubt that pay would have been his concern. This website: For the Cause of Christ: A Biography of Adoniram Judson - Judson College says of Judson:

"He sacrificed everything for the cause of Christ, influencing modern missions with a legacy marked by great sacrifice."

About the change from Congregational to Baptist, the same site says:

"During the many months it took them to arrive at their final destination, Ann and Adoniram came to a difficult conclusion. Through studying the Scriptures, they became convinced that baptism by immersion for professing Christians was the only form of baptism prescribed by Scripture. This conviction separated the Judsons from their original denomination as well as their fellow missionaries, leaving them reliant on the American Baptists who were wholly unaware of the situation."

That was a really tough but principled decision for Judson to make. They were very far from home, only regular mail for communication, which went by ship for weeks at a time, and with family to care for and bills to pay.