how to know you're really saved?

[Janosik]

HisMercy,

I thought eternal means everlasting, perpetual, timeless. Based on that one could live his/her eternal life in heaven or in hell. I admit that english is my second language and I am not sure if eternal means everlasting live with God only.

If you get a gift and you have to take it why don't we call it the right way, enforcement?

 

[HisMercy]

Janosik,

Everlasting life is a reward and everlasting death is a reward. Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire. See Daniel 12:2, Matthew 25:41 & 2Thess. 1:8-9.

Doubting Thomas,

Romans 11:7-8 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."

John 12:39-40 "Therefore they could not believe, because that Isaiah said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."

 

[Janosik]

Steaver,

what happened when you received the Holy Spirit when you were born again. Any signs that you received the Holy Spirit? What if tomorrow Satan will trick you not to make decisions based on the Holy Spirit's influence? You will say no to God. Are we going to say you were not saved in the first place? Does it happen?

 

[DHK]

"Jesus loves me this I know;
For the Bible tells me so.

Salvation is so simple. Why make is complicated? I know I am saved because I stand on the promises of God that say that I am.

1 John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
--It is that simple. You either have Christ or you don't. You are either born again or you are not. There is no middle ground. Salvation is the gift of God, that God will never take away from you. Either you have it or you don't.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--John writes with much certainty here. It is not that we hope that we have eternal life, or guess, or maybe, or etc. I KNOW I have eternal life. Why? Because I have believed on the name of the Son of God. Again, it is that simple.
DHK

 

[billwald]

Don't worry about it. Trust God and do what is right.

(If you thought that you would not be saved would you intentionally do wrong?????)

 

[steaver]

Steaver,

what happened when you received the Holy Spirit when you were born again. Any signs that you received the Holy Spirit?

Yes, From that point forward I have had Faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. This Faith has been tried but has never ceased and it has been 30 years now. I simply cannot "not" believe because this Faith is not of my own, it is the Gift of God!

What if tomorrow Satan will trick you not to make decisions based on the Holy Spirit's influence?

Satan could trick me and has tricked me into making sinful decisions over these 30 years. My life suffered. My Faith remained unshaken.

"For by grace are ye saved through Faith ; and that NOT of YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8)

You will say no to God. Are we going to say you were not saved in the first place? Does it happen?

Yes, the saved do say no to God at times and they suffer for it. This does not "un-born" them in any way. One cannot be physically unborn and one cannot be spiritually unborn. Thus the perfect analogy which Jesus gave Nicodemus. If you understand "born again" then you can understand OSAS. Nicodemus at first could not understand this and Jesus scolded him for being a teacher of the law and not understanding this truth.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Hi HisMwercy,

you said....

There isn't an option. We have no say in our salvation.

Would this include all people whom ever lived both before the cross and after?

God Bless!

 

[Janosik]

Steaver,

you are right. The faith is very important. What is faith? The Holy Spirit gives it to us. Now let's assume that someone got the faith but later starts to act based on Satan's influence. It's like saying no to God and saying yes to Satan. Is it fair to say that the person is losing the faith. What if it gets to the point that the person loses the faith completely. Is it possible? Do you know somebody that fits this scenario?

 

[steaver]

Steaver,

you are right. The faith is very important. What is faith? The Holy Spirit gives it to us. Now let's assume that someone got the faith but later starts to act based on Satan's influence. It's like saying no to God and saying yes to Satan. Is it fair to say that the person is losing the faith. What if it gets to the point that the person loses the faith completely. Is it possible? Do you know somebody that fits this scenario?

I don't think it is fair. Scripture teaches it is not possible for someone to lose "saving faith" which is a gift from God and not of ourselves.

Christians can have a broad degree of faith. Faith which is developed over their lives through trails and tribulations, also developed through fellowship and study of God's Word. This faith can range from very little faith to great faith.

Even those which appear to have the greatest faith, in God's eyes have practically nothing. Have you ever seen a Christian say to a mountain "move" and it did?

"And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove ; and nothing shall be impossible unto you ." (Matt 17:18-20)

I believe the mustard seed is one of the tiniest seeds there are and it is why Jesus used it as an analogy. So measure your faith by how often you can move mountains and you will see that if not for God preserving the born again through His power we would all be doomed!

How much faith do you believe it takes to be saved and how do you measure that faith? Are you using what Jesus used, moving mountains? Remember, what measure ye mete, It shall be measured to you again. (Matt 7:2)

I do not know anyone who fits the scenario you have discribed. I know many who have greived the Holy Spirit of God, whereby they have been sealed unto the day of redemption (Eph 4:30) and have shipwrecked their faith (1Tim 1:19). But even a wrecked faith is still faith.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2Cor 5:10)

God Bless!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
Steaver,

you are right. The faith is very important. What is faith? The Holy Spirit gives it to us. Now let's assume that someone got the faith but later starts to act based on Satan's influence. It's like saying no to God and saying yes to Satan. Is it fair to say that the person is losing the faith. What if it gets to the point that the person loses the faith completely. Is it possible? Do you know somebody that fits this scenario?

Faith is not quantitative. It is not something that is given, as you say, by the Holy Spirit.
"Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."
Faith is confidence in the word of another. People exercise faith every day. If you ask a taxi to take you to the airport, you by faith, trust his word that he will take you to the airport and not the local prison. You have confidence in his word.

I have confidence that when I put my key in the ignition of my car and turn it that my car will start. Sometimes my car doesn't start. That is because my car is made by man, who is fallible and makes mistakes. But I can put my faith, my confidence in the promises of God who never fails, and never makes mistakes. Faith is confidence in the Word of another. Biblical faith is confidence in God's Word. It comes by hearing (studying) God's Word, and in that way developing more of a relationship with God. How well do you know your Father? How much confidence can you put in Him?

It is not possible for me to lose "faith" or confidence in my earthly father (he is always there for me). I realize this is not always the case, but people are sinners. God is perfect. It defnitely is not possible for me to lose "faith" or confidence in my Heavenly Father. He has promised never to leave me nor forsake me.
DHK

 

[steaver]

Faith is not quantitative. It is not something that is given, as you say, by the Holy Spirit.

I disagree that faith is not quantative. There is a measure of faith given to every Christian which sustains their salvation. This faith is via the Holy Sprit which comes and indwells the believer. The Holy Spirit within is what sustains the gift of faith. We are united with Jesus Christ. We have access to His perfect faith and it is that faith flowing from Him into our spirits that sustains us. Otherwise we would yo-yo in and out of belief.

Some are weak and some are strong concerning their faith. (Ro 12&14) But all having the Holy Spirit will remain in Christ by faith through that same Spirit.

"Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased , that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly," (1 Cor 10:15)

Faith is given by God through the indwellment of the Holy Spirit. This is the faith that keeps you by the power of God. It can be increase or it can be neglected. The believer has a part in how they progress in their faith in Christ. Eventually we will all have perfect faith with Christ.

So when I say that faith is given you by God, I am saying that because the Gift of the Holy Spirit is the source of that saving faith.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith ; and THAT (faith) not of yourselves : it is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8)

God Bless!

 

[Janosik]

DHK,

are you suggesting that the faith comes on your merit 'hearing by the Word of God'? If somebody didn't come across the hearing then he/she wouldn't have the faith?

Steaver,

so we have 'faith', 'saving faith'. How many kinds are there?

 

[Janosik]

Steaver,

isn't it the same faith that can be increased or neglected?

 

[Janosik]

Steaver,

my point is that you have a free will and you can neglect/lose the same faith that can be increased. When you do that Satan can easly jump in. Is it possible? Do I miss something here?

 

[Janosik]

DHK,

It is not possible for me to lose "faith" or confidence in my earthly father (he is always there for me). I realize this is not always the case, but people are sinners. God is perfect. It defnitely is not possible for me to lose "faith" or confidence in my Heavenly Father. He has promised never to leave me nor forsake me.

Mark 15:34 'And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

I don't believe that God forsaken him but why did Jesus say that? How do you explain it? If He was in doubt you could be much easier.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by steaver:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith ; and THAT (faith) not of yourselves : it is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8)

God Bless!

Salvation is all by grace as Eph.2:8 states. Christ paid the penalty for our sins. He didn't have to do that. It was an act of grace. The entire sacrifice, the propitiation for our sins, was all of grace. Salvation is by grace. There is nothing, absolutely nothing that we can do to merit salvation. It is by the grace of God.
We accept this great gift by faith. It is a gift. I accept it by faith. The only way that I can accept it by faith is if someone tells me about it first. Thus, "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." If I don't hear the gospel, I have no chance of being saved. If I hear the gospel, I have a choice. I can reject or accept it. If by faith, I choose to accept what Christ by grace has done for me, then God will give to me the gift of eternal life and forgiveness of sins. But I must accept it by faith, that is, the confidence in the word of God that that which he promised is true. That faith comes from me. It is my decision. God gave me a free will. He did not make us robots. We have to choose whether we want to accept his free gift or not. Like a child who accepts a gift from a friend or a relative. Will she trust that that person is giving her a good gift. Does she have faith or confidence in the one that is giving the gift. Where does the faith come from--in the word of the person that she is trusting. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
DHK,

are you suggesting that the faith comes on your merit 'hearing by the Word of God'? If somebody didn't come across the hearing then he/she wouldn't have the faith?

Steaver,

so we have 'faith', 'saving faith'. How many kinds are there?

If someone doesn't hear the word of God, it is impossible for that person to have the faith to be saved. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. One must hear the gospel message before he can believe it (that is have faith in it).
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:

Mark 15:34 'And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

I don't believe that God forsaken him but why did Jesus say that? How do you explain it? If He was in doubt you could be much easier. [/QUOTE]
The verse you quote is a fulfillment of Scripture. It is Christ crying out to God the Father in his humanity, not in his divinity. It is at the point in time where for a moment of time God the Father turns his back, as it were, as Christ pays the penalty of our sins, and bears the burden of the sins of the world. There was no doubt on the part of Christ.
DHK

 

[steaver]

DHK,

If that faith comes from you and God gives you the Gift of eternal life via the Holy Spirit in you, can you then at a point in the future withdraw your faith and God will withdraw the Gift?

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Steaver,

so we have 'faith', 'saving faith'. How many kinds are there?

There is only one saving faith and that is Christ in you. This faith is a seed and as it is watered by the word it continues to grow. Starve it and it will suffer, yet the seed remains.

You can have faith in another or faith in your tools or vehicle or spouse or children, but this faith is not saving faith.

Steaver,

isn't it the same faith that can be increased or neglected?

Saving faith can be increased or neglected.

Steaver,

my point is that you have a free will and you can neglect/lose the same faith that can be increased. When you do that Satan can easly jump in. Is it possible? Do I miss something here?

I understand your point. I do not believe the scriptures teach that saving faith can be lost through neglect or lack of increase. I'm not sure how else to answer you. Have you searched out the scriptures to define "born again"? Jesus said it was a must. What is the biblical definition of "born again"? Understand this and nothing will ever shake the security you have in Christ again.

God Bless!