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how to know you're really saved?
- Thread starter JimboJones
- Start date
1 Corinthians 12:8-10 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
11 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
12 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
This is a list of the spiritual gifts that were given to the believers of the first century. They were miraculous supernatural gifts that have now ceased. See 1Cor.13:8. Does anyone have the gift of working of miracles today? No. In the first century, or the Apostolic Age, the Apostles had the power to work miracles, as Philip demonstrated when he went to Samaria (Acts 8), as Peter did in Acts 5:
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
No one has that gift today; no one has that power today--to heal all that come to him. Likewise no one has the "gift of faith," a supernatural gift that was given to those of the first century when the Word of God was not yet complete.
The Bible plainly says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Bible does not contradict itself.
DHK
11 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
12 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
This is a list of the spiritual gifts that were given to the believers of the first century. They were miraculous supernatural gifts that have now ceased. See 1Cor.13:8. Does anyone have the gift of working of miracles today? No. In the first century, or the Apostolic Age, the Apostles had the power to work miracles, as Philip demonstrated when he went to Samaria (Acts 8), as Peter did in Acts 5:
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
No one has that gift today; no one has that power today--to heal all that come to him. Likewise no one has the "gift of faith," a supernatural gift that was given to those of the first century when the Word of God was not yet complete.
The Bible plainly says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Bible does not contradict itself.
DHK
DHK,
how about Rom 10:17 in the light of Gal 5:22.
Faith comes by hearing of what? Hearing by the word of God. Where does the word of God comes from? Faith can not come just by your hearing. Faith comes based on what you hear. Hearing is the process how you obtain your faith but it is not the origin. That's how I understand it.
If you say the faith comes from you then you have something to boast about.
how about Rom 10:17 in the light of Gal 5:22.
Faith comes by hearing of what? Hearing by the word of God. Where does the word of God comes from? Faith can not come just by your hearing. Faith comes based on what you hear. Hearing is the process how you obtain your faith but it is not the origin. That's how I understand it.
If you say the faith comes from you then you have something to boast about.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Faith comes just by one's own hearing of the Word. That is exactly what this verse is teaching. The origin of faith in God, and in the gospel message which brings salvation is the Word of God. Once I hear that Word, I must respond to it. The decision is mine: to reject the message or to accept the message. God is not going to force me one way or the other. He has made me in His own image, and given me a will to choose. By my own faith or confidence in that message I can accept it or reject it. God is not going to force me either way. The faith comes from me.
Gal.5:22 speaks of spiritual fruit which results after a person comes to Christ.
Let me use an example. Faith never comes from the giver. The Giver is God. The gift is eternal life. He offers it to you freely. The only "condition" is that you accept it as a gift, by faith. Faith is not a work that you can boast in. You accept in good faith that God is giving you this gift of eternal life. You don't have to question the promises of God. You accept them by faith that they are true, and God will do as He says. Do you believe that? Faith does not come from the Giver of the gift. Faith comes from the one receiving the gift.
Example: Last Christmas my 10 year old daughter constructed a small wood tool-box for me. She gave it to me for a gift. I didn't have to work for it. I didn't have to do anything but accept it--accept it by faith that she was giving me a gift that I would appreciate. My faith in her was from myself. My faith did not originate in her. My faith does not come from the Giver. The Giver is the one who does all the work. My daughter did all the work in constructing that gift. Christ did all the work for you in dying on the cross. All you have to do is accept it by faith. It is your faith that you accept His gift. You decided whether you accept Him or reject Him. Salvation is a free gift, not to be worked for. By faith you freely accept his gift.
DHK
Faith comes just by one's own hearing of the Word. That is exactly what this verse is teaching. The origin of faith in God, and in the gospel message which brings salvation is the Word of God. Once I hear that Word, I must respond to it. The decision is mine: to reject the message or to accept the message. God is not going to force me one way or the other. He has made me in His own image, and given me a will to choose. By my own faith or confidence in that message I can accept it or reject it. God is not going to force me either way. The faith comes from me.
Gal.5:22 speaks of spiritual fruit which results after a person comes to Christ.
Let me use an example. Faith never comes from the giver. The Giver is God. The gift is eternal life. He offers it to you freely. The only "condition" is that you accept it as a gift, by faith. Faith is not a work that you can boast in. You accept in good faith that God is giving you this gift of eternal life. You don't have to question the promises of God. You accept them by faith that they are true, and God will do as He says. Do you believe that? Faith does not come from the Giver of the gift. Faith comes from the one receiving the gift.
Example: Last Christmas my 10 year old daughter constructed a small wood tool-box for me. She gave it to me for a gift. I didn't have to work for it. I didn't have to do anything but accept it--accept it by faith that she was giving me a gift that I would appreciate. My faith in her was from myself. My faith did not originate in her. My faith does not come from the Giver. The Giver is the one who does all the work. My daughter did all the work in constructing that gift. Christ did all the work for you in dying on the cross. All you have to do is accept it by faith. It is your faith that you accept His gift. You decided whether you accept Him or reject Him. Salvation is a free gift, not to be worked for. By faith you freely accept his gift.
DHK
Not at all. But that has nothing to do with salvation. You are mixing apples with oranges. Let's deal with one topic at a time. The faith in Gal.5:22 is on the topic of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.Originally posted by Janosik:
DHK,
come on. Where do you see the spiritual fruit?
Gal 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith," KJV
Read the whole Gal 5 and you will see that 'the Spirit' means the Holy Spirit. Are you going to deny that?
We have been discussing salvation. What does it mean to be born again?
When an unsaved person places his faith in Christ where does that faith come from? That was the question you were originally asking. First settle this question, the question of saving faith, then we will go on to talk of the fruit of the Spirit.
DHK
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.Originally posted by Janosik:
DHK,
there is the grace on one side. There is a person on the other side. How the person is going to find out about the grace?
Romans 10:13-15 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved, i.e., receive the gift of grace that God has for you--eternal life and the forgiveness of sins. It is all of grace.
God's
Riches
At
Christ's
Expense
God's gift of eternal life provided by the grace of God to be accepted by faith and faith alone.
DHK
"What you hear gives you faith"
Yes that is true. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. I have said that all along.
If my wife tells me she is going to the store to buy groceries for tonight's dinner, I have faith in what she has said (what I have heard) will come to pass. That is she will do what she said. I have faith or confidence in her words. I had to hear her words first before I had the faith to believe them. The belief or faith came from the relationship that I have with my wife. I have been married some time, and am able to put much confidence in her word. Likewise I have been saved a long time now, born into God's family, and have a personal relationship with Christ, and am therefore able to put faith in His Word that what He says will come to pass.
Faith is simply confidence in the word of another: whether it be confidence in the word of my wife, or confidence in the Word of God. We exercise faith every day, not always faith in the Biblical sense, as I illustrated with my wife, but faith nevertheless. It is confidence in the word of another. Do you have confidence in the Word of God, that the promises of God are true and will come to pass?
Romans 4:20-21 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
--Abraham considered the promise of God.
--He did not disbelieve them, though they seemed impossible.
--He was strong in faith, or the confidence that God would keep His promise.
--Being fully persuaded that what he had promised he was able also to perform.
--That is faith. Abraham was a man of faith. He was fully confident that God would do as He promised. It was Abraham's faith. He exercised it. God did not force it upon him. The Holy Spirit did not give it to him. He exercised that faith all by himself. He was fully persuaded in his own mind that God would do this. That is faith. Abraham is known as the friend of God. He walked by faith.
DHK
Yes that is true. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. I have said that all along.
If my wife tells me she is going to the store to buy groceries for tonight's dinner, I have faith in what she has said (what I have heard) will come to pass. That is she will do what she said. I have faith or confidence in her words. I had to hear her words first before I had the faith to believe them. The belief or faith came from the relationship that I have with my wife. I have been married some time, and am able to put much confidence in her word. Likewise I have been saved a long time now, born into God's family, and have a personal relationship with Christ, and am therefore able to put faith in His Word that what He says will come to pass.
Faith is simply confidence in the word of another: whether it be confidence in the word of my wife, or confidence in the Word of God. We exercise faith every day, not always faith in the Biblical sense, as I illustrated with my wife, but faith nevertheless. It is confidence in the word of another. Do you have confidence in the Word of God, that the promises of God are true and will come to pass?
Romans 4:20-21 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
--Abraham considered the promise of God.
--He did not disbelieve them, though they seemed impossible.
--He was strong in faith, or the confidence that God would keep His promise.
--Being fully persuaded that what he had promised he was able also to perform.
--That is faith. Abraham was a man of faith. He was fully confident that God would do as He promised. It was Abraham's faith. He exercised it. God did not force it upon him. The Holy Spirit did not give it to him. He exercised that faith all by himself. He was fully persuaded in his own mind that God would do this. That is faith. Abraham is known as the friend of God. He walked by faith.
DHK
In my example above it was not the Holy Spirit that gave my wife the words to say that she was going to buy groceries for dinner. That was her own planning. It was not the Holy Spirit that prompted me to believe or have faith in her words. That came from me.
The role of the Holy Spirit in the salvation of man is to convict him of sin; to show him that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour. It is true that a man cannot come to Christ without the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
The order: They heard the Word; they were convicted of the Holy Spirit; they believed. All were separate actions, but working together. In other words they put their faith in Christ because they both heard the Word of God and because they were convicted of the Holy Spirit. Their faith did not come from one or the other. The Holy Spirit did not force them to believe. They believed because of what they heard, because they were convicted of the Holy Spirit--and yet still had the choice to refuse and say no as some did.
DHK
The role of the Holy Spirit in the salvation of man is to convict him of sin; to show him that he is a sinner in need of a Saviour. It is true that a man cannot come to Christ without the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
The order: They heard the Word; they were convicted of the Holy Spirit; they believed. All were separate actions, but working together. In other words they put their faith in Christ because they both heard the Word of God and because they were convicted of the Holy Spirit. Their faith did not come from one or the other. The Holy Spirit did not force them to believe. They believed because of what they heard, because they were convicted of the Holy Spirit--and yet still had the choice to refuse and say no as some did.
DHK
"Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so"
It is the role of the Bible to tell me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and His saving work is offered to all who believe. The Bible tells us "the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."
The Bible tells us:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves."
The Holy Spirit does not tell me that; the Bible does.
The work of the Holy Spirit:
John 16:7-11 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
He will reprove (or convict) the world of sin and or righteous and of judgement. Of sin because they believe not on me.
The role of the Holy Spirit is to convict a man of sin, so that he will accept the gospel message as it is presented from the Word of God.
DHK
It is the role of the Bible to tell me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and His saving work is offered to all who believe. The Bible tells us "the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."
The Bible tells us:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves."
The Holy Spirit does not tell me that; the Bible does.
The work of the Holy Spirit:
John 16:7-11 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
He will reprove (or convict) the world of sin and or righteous and of judgement. Of sin because they believe not on me.
The role of the Holy Spirit is to convict a man of sin, so that he will accept the gospel message as it is presented from the Word of God.
DHK
Originally posted by Janosik:
1. The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible.
Yes, the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, but the authors are human beings who received the Spirit's inspiration. Divine inspiration is scriptural; divine dictation is not (except, perhaps, for the Ten Commandments).
You can not understand the Bible on your own. The Holy Spirit has to be in you.
I would venture that this is a true statement. However, being filled with the Holy Spirit is the beginning of scriptural understanding, not the end.
Hmmm.... Some will argue that the Holy Spirit lives in you AFTER you're saved, and wome will say that the Holy Spirit loves in you BEFORE you're saved.
What I can say with scriptural assurance is this: If you're saved, the Holy Spirit lives within you. That's what's important. Let us leave the minutae to the other philosophers on the board.
What I can say with scriptural assurance is this: If you're saved, the Holy Spirit lives within you. That's what's important. Let us leave the minutae to the other philosophers on the board.
He finds out of the grace of God by the preaching of the Word of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23-24 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
A person finds out about the grace of God through the Word of God, which comes through the preaching of the Word of God.
DHK
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23-24 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
A person finds out about the grace of God through the Word of God, which comes through the preaching of the Word of God.
DHK