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how to know you're really saved?
- Thread starter JimboJones
- Start date
Ephesians 2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, (ASV)
The teaching of this verse is that an unsaved person is dead spiritually. He does not have the Holy Spirit which gives life. He is dead in his trespasses and sin. He is only given life at the time of salvation when the Holy Spirit comes and indwells him. Before that time, he is unsaved, a child of the devil, a child of disobedience, under the wrath of God, outside of the family of God, and without the Spirit of God. Thus the necessity of the warning of Jesus: Ye must be born again.
Only when one is born again does the Spirit of God come to dwell within.
DHK
Mat 16:16-17
"16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. "
Is it possible that you believe in Jesus without the Holy Spirit in you?
"16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. "
Is it possible that you believe in Jesus without the Holy Spirit in you?
Simon was already follower of Christ at this point. He had already believed that Jesus was the Messiah. This was only an affirmation of his faith in Christ.
Yes I believed in Christ without the Holy Spirit already being in me. That is the only way that salvation can happen. The Holy Spirit comes and dwells within a person after he believes. Before that time a person is dead spiritually to God. There is no spiritual life in him. He must be born alive--born from above--made alive by Christ. Trusting Christ as your Saviour is the only that that can happen. Otherwise you will die in your sins, without any spiritual life whatsoever, and definitely without the Holy Spirit.
DHK
Acts 11:15-18
15"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
17So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"
18When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
Doesn't this mean that when you hear/read the word of God and you have open heart that the Holy Spirit comes on you?
15"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
17So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"
18When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
Doesn't this mean that when you hear/read the word of God and you have open heart that the Holy Spirit comes on you?
15"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
This is the key verse. It relates back to what had happened on the Day of Pentecost. Peter was not an unsaved man preaching on the Day of Pentecost, or speaking in tongues on the Day of Pentecost. He had been saved well before that time.
As in Peter's case (as well as in the 120 that were in the upper room upon whom the Holy Spirit fell), these individuals in Acts 11 believed before the Holy Spirit came upon them, not after. The Holy Spirit does not indwell unsaved people. He does not come and fill the hearts of unsaved people.
A more detailed account is given in Acts 10 where Luke records:
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
The gift of the Holy Spirit referred here, as well as the gift of Speaking in Tongues have ceased. These were supernatural manifestations of the Spirit given for a short period of time to authenticate the message of the gospel to the Jews, so that the Jews might know that the gospel being preached by the Apostles was genuinely from God. Look at the preceding verse:
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
They of the circumcision believed. What did they believe? They were already believers that had come with Peter. They now believed that salvation was come to the Gentiles. They now believed that because of the gift of tongues and the manifestation of the Holy Spirit that the gospel message was from God and a message to be given to the Gentiles as well. That was the purpose of the gift of tongues and the supernatural gift of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit during this time. Both of these are not in operation today.
DHK
This is the key verse. It relates back to what had happened on the Day of Pentecost. Peter was not an unsaved man preaching on the Day of Pentecost, or speaking in tongues on the Day of Pentecost. He had been saved well before that time.
As in Peter's case (as well as in the 120 that were in the upper room upon whom the Holy Spirit fell), these individuals in Acts 11 believed before the Holy Spirit came upon them, not after. The Holy Spirit does not indwell unsaved people. He does not come and fill the hearts of unsaved people.
A more detailed account is given in Acts 10 where Luke records:
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
The gift of the Holy Spirit referred here, as well as the gift of Speaking in Tongues have ceased. These were supernatural manifestations of the Spirit given for a short period of time to authenticate the message of the gospel to the Jews, so that the Jews might know that the gospel being preached by the Apostles was genuinely from God. Look at the preceding verse:
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
They of the circumcision believed. What did they believe? They were already believers that had come with Peter. They now believed that salvation was come to the Gentiles. They now believed that because of the gift of tongues and the manifestation of the Holy Spirit that the gospel message was from God and a message to be given to the Gentiles as well. That was the purpose of the gift of tongues and the supernatural gift of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit during this time. Both of these are not in operation today.
DHK
Previous to the time that I was saved I was a Roman Catholic. In the Catholic Church I never heard a clear presentation of the gospel. I never heard a message of salvation or on the new birth. In fact I never owned a Bible, or was encouraged to read one.
One day at the campus of the university that I was at, one of the students asked me a couple questions.
#1. Do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God?
I said yes, thinking to myself, of course I believe the Bible is the Word of God. I am a devout Catholic.
#2. The second question that he asked me is: If you were to die tonight do you know for sure if you would go to Heaven? I had to answer no. No, I did not know for sure I would go to Heaven, and according to the Catholic faith could not know for sure. If I had committed a mortal sin, like missing mass on Sunday, did not get to confession, got in an automobile accident and died suddenly before a priest could get there to administer the sacrament of extreme unction, I would end up in Hell forever. There were too many variables. And then there is the matter of purgatory to consider, where almost everyone goes (that has not been very bad). No I could not know for sure.
Then he simply said, May I show you from the Bible how you can know for sure that you can go to Heaven. Well, I had already committed myself. I had said that I believed the Bible is the Word of God. I had just said I didn't know that I could go to Heaven. He was offering the opportunity to show me from the Bible how I could know. So I allowed him.
He took the Bible, and this is what he showed me:
#1. Romans 3:23 "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
--He showed me that I am a sinner, like every man I have sinned and offended a holy God. I didn't need to be convinced of that. I knew that I was a sinner. I could write a list a mile long of sins that I committed. After all I was a practicing Catholic. I went to confession every week. What do you think we did at that confessional?
#2. Second he took me to Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life."
A wage is something that one deserves. If you work for $10.00/hour, then at the end of an 8 hour day you deserve $80.00. That is your wage. That is what you deserve. God says your wage (that which you deserve is death (eternal death in contrast to eternal life). You deserve because of your sin. The wages of sin is death--separation of from God for all eternity. That is what death is: separation. Physical death is simply the spirit separating from the body. Eternal death is separaton from God eternally.
So man is a sinner. He deserves eternal death, eternal separation from God--a penalty that he cannot pay and does not want. What then can he do? How can an unrighteous person like me stand before a holy and righteous God?
#3. The answer is found in Romans 5:8
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
--The word "commendeth" there means "demonstrated." God demonstrated his love to us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He loved us so much that Jesus Christ came into this world and died for our sins. He took that penalty, that I could not pay, and paid it for me with his own blood.
Christ was God, and Christ was perfect. Being God he could suffer for the sins of all men. Being perfect he could make the sacrifice for our sins.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
--Christ was the just. He suffered for the unjust, that He might bring us to God. The sacrifice was paid but one time in history. He died for you, took your sins upon himself, was buried, and on the third day rose again, conquering death and sin. His blood made the payment for your sin.
#4. What, therefore, is my obligation?
Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
That night I called upon the name of the Lord. I invited Him into my heart and life as my Saviour. I admitted to Him that I was a sinner in need of a Saviour. I prayed that he would come and be my Saviour, take away my sin and give me His gift of eternal life.
Christ did just that. Christ, by the power of Holy Spirit, came and took up residence within me. The Bible says "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature. Old things are passed away, behold all things are become new." And so it was. It was the beginning of a new life. I had just become one of God's children. My life began to change as God began to work in me. I, almost immediately, stopped using the Lord's name in vain. I got a Bible and began to read it, and found a joy in reading it. I began to have fellowship with believers (religious people who previously I would have shunned). I began to stay away from places that previously I would have gone to. God changed my life radically. Within three years my career had changed and then, I found myself in Bible College. Our God is a marvellous God.
DHK
One day at the campus of the university that I was at, one of the students asked me a couple questions.
#1. Do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God?
I said yes, thinking to myself, of course I believe the Bible is the Word of God. I am a devout Catholic.
#2. The second question that he asked me is: If you were to die tonight do you know for sure if you would go to Heaven? I had to answer no. No, I did not know for sure I would go to Heaven, and according to the Catholic faith could not know for sure. If I had committed a mortal sin, like missing mass on Sunday, did not get to confession, got in an automobile accident and died suddenly before a priest could get there to administer the sacrament of extreme unction, I would end up in Hell forever. There were too many variables. And then there is the matter of purgatory to consider, where almost everyone goes (that has not been very bad). No I could not know for sure.
Then he simply said, May I show you from the Bible how you can know for sure that you can go to Heaven. Well, I had already committed myself. I had said that I believed the Bible is the Word of God. I had just said I didn't know that I could go to Heaven. He was offering the opportunity to show me from the Bible how I could know. So I allowed him.
He took the Bible, and this is what he showed me:
#1. Romans 3:23 "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
--He showed me that I am a sinner, like every man I have sinned and offended a holy God. I didn't need to be convinced of that. I knew that I was a sinner. I could write a list a mile long of sins that I committed. After all I was a practicing Catholic. I went to confession every week. What do you think we did at that confessional?
#2. Second he took me to Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life."
A wage is something that one deserves. If you work for $10.00/hour, then at the end of an 8 hour day you deserve $80.00. That is your wage. That is what you deserve. God says your wage (that which you deserve is death (eternal death in contrast to eternal life). You deserve because of your sin. The wages of sin is death--separation of from God for all eternity. That is what death is: separation. Physical death is simply the spirit separating from the body. Eternal death is separaton from God eternally.
So man is a sinner. He deserves eternal death, eternal separation from God--a penalty that he cannot pay and does not want. What then can he do? How can an unrighteous person like me stand before a holy and righteous God?
#3. The answer is found in Romans 5:8
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
--The word "commendeth" there means "demonstrated." God demonstrated his love to us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He loved us so much that Jesus Christ came into this world and died for our sins. He took that penalty, that I could not pay, and paid it for me with his own blood.
Christ was God, and Christ was perfect. Being God he could suffer for the sins of all men. Being perfect he could make the sacrifice for our sins.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
--Christ was the just. He suffered for the unjust, that He might bring us to God. The sacrifice was paid but one time in history. He died for you, took your sins upon himself, was buried, and on the third day rose again, conquering death and sin. His blood made the payment for your sin.
#4. What, therefore, is my obligation?
Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
That night I called upon the name of the Lord. I invited Him into my heart and life as my Saviour. I admitted to Him that I was a sinner in need of a Saviour. I prayed that he would come and be my Saviour, take away my sin and give me His gift of eternal life.
Christ did just that. Christ, by the power of Holy Spirit, came and took up residence within me. The Bible says "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature. Old things are passed away, behold all things are become new." And so it was. It was the beginning of a new life. I had just become one of God's children. My life began to change as God began to work in me. I, almost immediately, stopped using the Lord's name in vain. I got a Bible and began to read it, and found a joy in reading it. I began to have fellowship with believers (religious people who previously I would have shunned). I began to stay away from places that previously I would have gone to. God changed my life radically. Within three years my career had changed and then, I found myself in Bible College. Our God is a marvellous God.
DHK
how did you come to this conclusion?</font>[/QUOTE]Acts 10:43-44 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Verse 43 is very specific. "Whosover believes in him shall receive remission of sins." Salvation and forgiveness of sins comes from belief; believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. It does not come directly from the Holy Spirit. It comes from believing in Christ.
While Peter spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the Word. "Heard" implies belief, such as it does in Acts 2:41. They first believed. As they heard and believed the Holy Spirit fell upon them. The Holy Spirit does not fall upon an unsaved person. This doctrine defies all other Scriptural teaching. It would be heresy to say that one has the Holy Spirit before salvation. The Bible teaches that one is spiritually dead before salvation.
Ephesians 2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, (ASV)
The Holy Spirit makes one alive. He does so at the time of salvation. Before that time one is dead--spiritually dead.
My faith in Christ will only increase as I grow in faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The more I hear and study the Word of God, the greater the faith I will have. Christianity is not a religion; it is a relationship. The longer I stay in my marriage relationship the more faith or confidence I am able to put in my wife: confidence or faith that she will never leave me, confidence or faith that what she tells me is true. How much more is that with God. The longer I am in a real personal relationship with my Heavenly Father, the more confidence (or faith) I am able to put in His promises that He will answer prayer according to the promises of His Word, and His will.
The gift of God is eternal life. I can never lose that gift. If I could then that gift would not be what God says it is: "eternal." It would only be temporal, and God would be found to be a liar. He has given to those that believe on Him eternal life and forgiveness of sins.
DHK
We can be sure that God is not a liar. The Bible says one can commit a sin that will cost one's eternal life. So the only explanation is that one can not tell if he/she already has the eternal life.
Can you explain it differently? </font>[/QUOTE]Where does the Bible say that "one can commit a sin that will cost one's eternal life." I do not find that statement or teaching in the Scriptures. Rather I find in Romans 6:23,
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life."
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
Once a person is given eternal life by God, it will never be lost or taken back. Otherwise God would be found a liar. Eternal means eternal, by the very definition of the word. If eternal ceased to be eternal it would be temporal, and God would be lying. The gift of God is eternal life. Salvation is of grace not of works. Grace is God's free unmerited favor to mankind. It is a gree gift, not to be worked for. If I don't work for it and it is a free gift, how then could I lose or, or how would God ever take back a gift that He has freely given me. Do you take back the gifts that you give to your children?
DHK
Mathew 12:32
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
God is not liar. If one can commit a sin that it's wage will be death then how one can tell that he/she already has eternal life?
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
God is not liar. If one can commit a sin that it's wage will be death then how one can tell that he/she already has eternal life?
I do not believe this sin can be committed today. When Jesus was on the earth, He was performing miracles right in the very sight of the Pharisees and Saduccees. The miracles testified of His deity. They were done through the power of the Spirit of God. They attributed the miracles to the power of Satan, thereby denying His deity. To attribute the works of Christ to the works of Satan was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Christ performed those miracles in their very presence. That will not happen again. I do not believe that sin, therefore, is relevant to us today. Eternal means eternal. What other possible meaning could it have?
DHK
The penalty of the wages of sin has already been paid for by the blood of Christ. He has paid the penalty for all of our sins--the past, present and future. "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." If I accept his sacrificial death as the penalty for my sin he gives me eternal life which can never be taken away. He paid the penalty which I deserved. That is grace. Salvation is by grace through faith. I must accept his gift of eternal life by faith and faith alone. It is a gift, provided by grace to be accepted by faith.
DHK
If you are speaking of the sin of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit," then what is it?
But otherwise, of course we commit sin. We all sin. With a believer our sin is put under the blood of Christ. The Bible says these things about our sin once we are saved:
They are buried in the depths of the sea.
God remembers them no more.
He has cast them behind his back.
As far as the east is from the west; so far has he removed our transgressions.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
DHK
But otherwise, of course we commit sin. We all sin. With a believer our sin is put under the blood of Christ. The Bible says these things about our sin once we are saved:
They are buried in the depths of the sea.
God remembers them no more.
He has cast them behind his back.
As far as the east is from the west; so far has he removed our transgressions.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
DHK
No. That is an opinion that I believe it is unsubstantiated by Scripture. That question is a bit off topic
Where do you get this from? I have demonstrated to you how this is impossible. It is unbiblical. According to Eph.2:1 we were dead (without the Holy Spirit) before we were saved. There was no spiritual life in us, until the Holy Spirit entered at the time of salvation. The Holy Spirit has no place in the part of an unbeliever.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Unless you are a universalist and believe that all men have the Spirit of Christ, you must believe the Scriptures here, that only the saved have the Spirit of Christ which comes at the point of salvation.
Romans 8:15-16 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
God's Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am His child. This never happened before the age of 20 when I was a Catholic without Christ, without the Holy Spirit, without salvation, without eternal life, and without forgiveness of sins.
DHK