how to know you're really saved?

[Me2]

Seth3,

L Ray smith doesnt hold back or mixes words.

I try to read as much of others interpretations, yet without the revelation that allows the eyes to be opened. Its futile.

theres many good writers that post that can give different ways of expressing the revelations the way they see it. It all good.

Ive even read a lot of your posts. on this board as well as others. and might I say youve personally laid out the details explaining your posts and have begun to write well also.

Ive just checked out L Rays series of the "Lake of fire" #14. which contain some of the ideas in my previous posts...

L Ray Smith's link....

we are all learning to stand on each others shoulders when it comes to expressing ourselves.

Me2

 

[DHK]

Seth,
I don't think you agree with Me2. She is a universalist who believes that all will be saved including Stalin, Hitler, etc. Accordingly no one will be lost or suffer eternal punishment. Do you believe this?
DHK

 

[Seth3]

DHK,

I DO AGREE WITH ME2. I dont AGREE WITH YOU or judge by appearances like you do. I think people like legalists stand in the way of the SUN (The everlasting gospel). Which was SO SIMPLE. I don't look for doctrine in your mouth I look at the FRUIT of the Spirit in your LIFE THATS GOSPEL thats TRUTH and THATS CHRIST. You cannot bear it without Him in you.

I see more of this in Me2 and many others who might not "have it all correct" but they HAVE LOVE and AGAINST THIS... THERE IS NO LAW-NONE. The REQUIREMENT IS MET.

The only ones who cannot walk in the love of God are those under the law THOUGH they Claim Christ they are severed from the power of God and their hearts are made manifest to all.

All day long He has held His hands out to those under the law and THESE were the UNWILLING ONES. Sinners LOVED JESUS because He set them free He didn't judge them or through the law on their backs.

Seth3

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Seth3:
DHK,

I DO AGREE WITH ME2. I dont AGREE WITH YOU or judge by appearances like you do. I think people like legalists stand in the way of the SUN (The everlasting gospel). Which was SO SIMPLE. I don't look for doctrine in your mouth I look at the FRUIT of the Spirit in your LIFE THATS GOSPEL thats TRUTH and THATS CHRIST. You cannot bear it without Him in you.

You can stop with the false allegations, the arrogant front that you put up, and all of the nasty innuendoes. If you can't discuss the Bible decently then don't discuss it all.

"I don't judge by appearances like you do." Are you God? How do you know this? There are no appearances over the internet. I don't know how any of you look. I only know what you write or what you tell me by what you write. If it is false according to the Word of God, then I will say so. If the truth hurts, then so be it. But there is neven any reason to make personal attacks or false allegations. That is against BB rules, which you read and agreed to when you became a member here.

This is a debate forum for anyone to join in.
"I don't look for doctrine in your mouth."
Your not looking in my mouth, thankfully. You are looking at a printed page, on a computer screen. If you don't see doctrine (teaching) you are in a bad way. If you don't want doctrine or to discuss it, then you are in the wrong place. Go to another forum. This is a place where doctrine of various types is debated. Get used to it. If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

DHK says
You can stop with the false allegations,


Seth replies,

They are false the Truth is Love in Christ

DHK says

the arrogant front that you put up, and all of the nasty innuendoes.

Seth3 replies


NOW THAT is the POT calling the kettle black. Should I copy paste all the nasty things in the nasty spirit that you have shown to many here? I’ve seen them, YOU DHK DO THAT VERY THING. Feeling a bit condemned now?


DHK says,

If you can't discuss the Bible decently then don't discuss it all.


Seth3 replies,

You don’t discuss anything, you insult throw accusations around and do not treat others as equal but YOU as above them.

DHK says

"I don't judge by appearances like you do."


Seth3 says,

YOU LIE. You just told me I would not agree with Me2 because Me2 is a “universalist” you judge Me2 by the TITLE you see attached the forehead rather then the SPIRIT by which we are to Judge and test according to our Lords word.

DHK says
Are you God? How do you know this?

Seth3 says,

Obviously not God as you think you are walking around judging others but not by His Spirit. We are GIVEN the SPIRIT to DISCERN and the words of scripture that show us that anyone who says He knows God yet does not walk in love is a LIAR.


DHK says

There are no appearances over the internet. I don't know how any of you look.


Seth3 says,

So you are THAT shallow to believe that appearances are skin deep alone? You say, “such and such believes this” or Me2 believes universalism” its divisive. Know EACH PERSON BY THEIR FRUIT but you CANNOT because you unscripturally judge others by their “titles” or “denominations” or “beliefs” NOT FRUIT.

DHK says

I only know what you write or what you tell me by what you write. If it is false according to the Word of God, then I will say so.If the truth hurts, then so be it.

Seth3 replies,

Ok THEN whats good for you then is good by me you then agree. I see you as a living contradiction to the Spirit of Christ. ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE your ways your Spirit and your insulting nature bear no fruit neither further Gods cause through you.


So IF THIS HURTS …. SO BE IT.


DHK says


But there is neven any reason to make personal attacks or false allegations. That is against BB rules, which you read and agreed to when you became a member here.

Seth3 replies,
I have not attacked you “falsely” or made any false allegations, they are there to read before all on the threads were discussing. I’m sure BB would agree with scripture which they adhere to that this kind of thing should not be done. It’s NOT personal… ITS SCRIPTURAL and the scriptures bear witness to the Spirit of falsehood and Truth.


DHK says


This is a debate forum for anyone to join in.
"I don't look for doctrine in your mouth."
Your not looking in my mouth, thankfully.


Seth3 replies

What came out of it


DHK says,


You are looking at a printed page, on a computer screen. If you don't see doctrine (teaching) you are in a bad way.

If you don't want doctrine or to discuss it, then you are in the wrong place. Go to another forum. This is a place where doctrine of various types is debated. Get used to it. If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire.

Seth3 replies,

That’s all it is to you, “debate” (no life) yet you disregard and blatantly look your nose down on others. It’s the Spirit of it that I disagree with. Sound doctrine is both in word and life. Expressed in love not how you express it.

Trust me I can take the heat but you’re the one being melted in it.


Seth3

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by DHK:

Originally posted by Janosik:
[qb] DHK,
your salvation as you described it a few pages back is through WORK. Are you going to deny it? How do you keep and grow your faith? Isn't it WORK?

Please, show me in the Bible where it says that to obey God means to leave the Catholic Church.

The simple answer to this is salvation is never through man's work, but always through the work of Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

If any church or religion preaches any other message but this, one should leave it.

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

A good indicator of the perverted gospel is your JOY METER.

Paul asks, "What has happened to all your JOY"?

THAT kind of persuasion does NOT come from the Lord.

Zion is a JOYFUL assembly. The perverted Gospel is Miserable (seen in Revelation).


God bless

Seth3

 

[Janosik]

DHK,

you say that: "salvation is never through man's work"


On the other hand what is this???

Originally posted by DHK:

If you have never done that you need to be saved. You need to be born again. You need to pray and trust Christ as your Saviour. That is what it means to be born again. When a person is saved, they are born into God's family. I did that when I was 20 years old, on Oct 20 about 8:00 p.m. when at the Univeristy campus. Ever since that time I have known for sure that I have been saved, and on my way to heaven. I have no doubts about my salvation and that I am a child of God.

YOU DID IT when you were 20!!!!


You are full of contradictions!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
DHK,

you say that: "salvation is never through man's work"


On the other hand what is this???


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Originally posted by DHK:

If you have never done that you need to be saved. You need to be born again. You need to pray and trust Christ as your Saviour. That is what it means to be born again. When a person is saved, they are born into God's family. I did that when I was 20 years old, on Oct 20 about 8:00 p.m. when at the Univeristy campus. Ever since that time I have known for sure that I have been saved, and on my way to heaven. I have no doubts about my salvation and that I am a child of God.

YOU DID IT when you were 20!!!!


You are full of contradictions!!!!!!!!!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]No, think again. Faith is not a work. Accepting a gift is not a work. How can these things be works. Let's consider the Scriptures once again:

Romans 4:1-5 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Verse 1 indicates that if Abraham had found or did anything according to the flesh (that is any good work) then what good would it have been to him?

Verse 2 says that if Abraham were justified by his works he could glory but only in himself. That is, he could boast, saying "Look as see what I have done," the same thing that people do when they are baptized, join a church, confirmed, etc. "See what I have done; See what happened to me, etc."
"But not before God." He could glory in his own works but not before God. If one is justified by his own works he can boast about his own good works but he cannot not bring them before God, God hates them. God does not accept your good works. This is evident here: "But not before God."

Verse 3: What does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. All of his good works: leaving the Ur of the Chaldees, walking by faith to a land where he knew not, believing God that he would have a son in his old age, willing to sacrifice that son on an altar. He obeyed God in all that God commanded. These works did not get him to heaven. It plainly says that "He believed God, and therefore righteousness was imputed unto him. It was not his good works; it was his faith. He trusted God. Good works had nothing to do with his salvation, nothing.

Verse 4: "Now to him that worketh is the reward" Every one that works receives a reward or a wage. If you work for $10.00 an hour for eight hours in a day then at the end of that day you deserve $80.00. That is your reward, your wage, that which you deserve. You earned it. You worked for it. That is what the first part of this verse is saying. Your boss isn't going to come along and just give you a gift. He is going to pay you what you deserve--your wage.

"not reckoned of grace, but of debt." The boss owes it to you. It is his debt. It is not grace, that is, a gift to you. It is his obligation to give you your wage, that which you earned.

Verse 5 says, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly his faith is counted for righteousness.
Isn't that a wonderful verse? To him that does no work whatsoever, but simply believes. Believing is not a work. If you simply believe on Christ, the one that can justify you, He will you give you a just standing, a righteous standing before God.
Your sins will be forgiven.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Believe, have faith, (not works) and you shall be saved.

Look at the next three verses in Romans four:
Romans 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Blessed is the man to whom God imputes righteousness without works.
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven.
Blessed are they whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

These are all wonderful promises to the one who, by faith, trusts Jesus Christ as His Saviour. There is no work involved here. Simply believe on Him as Saviour and accept His free gift of salvation. That is not work. That is the acceptance of a gift.
DHK

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by DHK:
Faith is not a work. Accepting a gift is not a work. How can these things be works.

Thank you for putting onto text the words that escaped me. Certainly this should solve the issue that many hypercalvinists have when I've attempted to say what DHK is saying.

 

[Janosik]

There is the Christ's saving work on one side.
There is a person on the other side.

How a person, who has no clue about Christ's saving work, can get saved? It can be done only through good works. How did the kerygma get to you?

 

[DHK]

Romans 10:13-15 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
--This is the only way a person can be saved--by calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, believing in what He has done for you on the cross.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

These are the questions that you have just asked. A person cannot get saved unless someone tells them of the message of salvation. The Catholic Church doesn't tell people of salvation. I was there for 20 years and never heard it once. Not until someone living in at the campus of the university here explained the way of salvation to me did I understand what it means to be saved. The good works is on the part of that saved person who showed me the way of salvation. I may have done good before that time, but God didn't count them for good works, for I was not saved. Isa.64:6 calls them but "filthy rags." There is no good thing that one can do to merit eternal life. Jesus paid the entire penalty for our sin Himself with his precious blood. Not baptism, nor confirmation, nor church membership can play any part in the salvation of one's soul. Jesus paid the full price of our salvation.

In order for a person to be saved he must hear the message. In order for him to hear the message someone must take the message to him. That is where missions come in. I myself am a missionary, taking the gospel to those who have never heard it before.
DHK

 

[steaver]

Hi DHK,

You have thoroughly presented the Word of God on this issue. It is not your words but the Lord's Word. If they refuse to accept the Word of the Lord then it will be to their own condemnation. Jesus provided His written Word and made it emphatically clear!

"By grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast". (Eph 2:8-9)

That is a quote from GOD!!!!

It needs no explaination. It is painfully simple and to the point!

Those who have ears to hear, let them hear!

Catholics of times past have burned men at the stake for presenting the pure Word of the Lord. Today they cannot get away with that, but they continue to drag many unaware souls into the burning flames of hell.

Catholicism, along with any other religion that places men in authority over the Scriptures themselves, are reincarnations of the Pharisees. Jesus told them..."woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in". (Matt 23:13)

For the sake of your eternity folks, pray and ask God for wisdom, reject ALL that you have been taught by men that DOES NOT coincide with the pure Word of God.

God Bless!

 

[Janosik]

So what is wrong with this?
The Catholic Church believes the gift of salvation is passed to a sinner in baptism. You believe the gift of salvation is passed to you differently but it's still through WORK. Together we believe in the same gift of salvation.

Please, show me in the Bible where it says that to obey God means to leave the Catholic Church.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
So what is wrong with this?
The Catholic Church believes the gift of salvation is passed to a sinner in baptism. You believe the gift of salvation is passed to you differently but it's still through WORK. Together we believe in the same gift of salvation.

The Catholic's believe that salvation is by works. We do not; the Bible does not teach salvation by works as the Catholic Church does.
It teaches salvation by grace through faith which the Catholic Church does not teach. I keep giving you the example of baptism. Baptism is a work. It is a work that man does, and man receives. God doesn't baptize you; man does. That makes baptism a work of man. In order to be saved the Catholic Church says that you must be baptized. Therefore salvation is by works (baptism) according to the Catholic Church. That is a heresy. It is for the reason of heresy that one should leave the Catholic Church.

Salvation is by grace through faith.
It is the grace of God that paid for our sins; and only the grace of God. Jesus paid it all. He atoned for our sins with his blood. He paid the full penalty once and for all. There is nothing we can do to merit our own salvation. Christ is not a "half-Saviour." He paid the full price. Baptism doesn't help one along.

It is by faith, and faith alone. We must accept his gift of salvation by faith. Christ paid the penalty. It was His work. All that we need to do is accept His gift of salvation by faith. It is a free gift.
Grace is the free unmerited favor of God; not a work
Faith is not a work. It is confidence; trust.

Baptism on the other hand is a man-made work that the Catholic Church demands. The Bible doesn not demand it in respect to salvation; only the Catholic Church.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Please, show me in the Bible where it says that to obey God means to leave the Catholic Church.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
--There are many heresies that the Catholic Church believe in. They need to be rejected, and therefore, the Catholic Church as a whole need to be rejected.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

So it's OK for you to receive the gift of salvation through work but it's no OK for Catholics.
What kind of logic is that?

--There are many heresies that the Catholic Church believe in. They need to be rejected, and therefore, the Catholic Church as a whole need to be rejected.

Dude, chill out. Why is your hate so high?


Titus 3:10 is your example? I don't think it's that good. You don't have any example to show.

The Catholic Church doesn't tell people of salvation. I was there for 20 years and never heard it once.

The Catholic Church does tell about the salvation. It appears that you did not pay attention to what you were told. Now you want to blame the Catholic Church for it?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
So it's OK for you to receive the gift of salvation through work but it's no OK for Catholics.
What kind of logic is that?

OK, Jasonik. I will have to call that a false allegation, unless you can prove it to be true. Where have I ever said that one can merit salvation through works. I have consistently said that salvation is by grace through faith without works. No false allegations please. Don't say things without backing them up.

--There are many heresies that the Catholic Church believe in. They need to be rejected, and therefore, the Catholic Church as a whole need to be rejected.

Dude, chill out. Why is your hate so high?

That is not hate. It is truth. If you like to start a thread on the heresies of the Catholic Church it is fine by me. There are many of them: purgatory, the adulation of Mary, the immaculation, the assumption, the sacrifice of the mass, baptismal regeneration, confession of sins to a priest, transubstantiation, praying to saints, indulgences, the perpetual virginity of Mary, etc. Many, many, man-made heretical doctrines of the Catholic Church which have no foundation in the Bible whatsoever. It is not hate to point out error. If your neighbor's house suddenly burst out in flames would you sit in your house and do absolutely nothing about it. Or would you call the fire department? Would you try to see that children and others are safely out of it? Would you put any effort at all into saving the occupants of that house from that fire? The Catholic Church is sending billions of people to Hell. Shall I sit around idly and allow them to do it??

Titus 3:10 is your example? I don't think it's that good. You don't have any example to show.

See above. I just gave you examples of many heretical doctrines of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church doesn't tell people of salvation. I was there for 20 years and never heard it once.

The Catholic Church does tell about the salvation. It appears that you did not pay attention to what you were told. Now you want to blame the Catholic Church for it? [/QB][/QUOTE]
No it does not. What does it mean to be born again? If you fail to understand such a basic and important concept of the Word of God, then how can you successfully tell people about salvation. The Catholic Church says that to be born again is to be baptized. That is heresy, and it is a doctrine that will send people to hell. It shows that the Catholic Church knows nothing of the doctrine of salvation.
Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

The good works is on the part of that saved person who showed me the way of salvation.

Based on this good work you heard about the salvation. The gift of salvation is passed to you through good works.
What would happen if you didn't hear?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The good works is on the part of that saved person who showed me the way of salvation.

Based on this good work you heard about the salvation. The gift of salvation is passed to you through good works.
What would happen if you didn't hear? </font>[/QUOTE]As explained in Romans 10:13-15, a person who doesn't hear the gospel doesn't get saved. It is that simple. Now get this straight. When I got saved there was no good work on my part. I was the one that was not saved. I accepted God's gift of salvation. I trusted Christ by faith. Accepting a gift is not a work. Faith is not a work.

The person telling the story of salvation was already saved. This has nothing to do with him. He was already a disciple of Jesus, a Christian.

Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. There was no works on my part. I cannot work my way to heaven. Baptism or any other work will get me to heaven. Only trusting Christ will. Christ alone paid the penalty for my sins. I must trust in His atoning sacrifice for the forgiveness of my sins, or else I will pay the penalty of eternal separation from God in a place called Hell. It is as simple as that. No works involved.
DHK

 

[Seth3]

The penalty of sin in scripture is death. Paul said it best "This body of DEATH" He needing saving from.

God Bless

Seth3