how to know you're really saved?

[Janosik]

A saved person was doing the good work on your side.
I got baptized by a saved person on my side. I didn't do the work. What's the difference?

The gift of salvation was passed to you through good works of a saved person. The gift of salvation was passed to me through good works of a saved person.

What would happen if you didn't hear the kerygma? What would happen if the good works wasn't there?

 

[DHK]

The difference is the Catholic Church believes that baptism is a sacrament, and baptism is salvic. You cannot be saved without baptism. It is a work that man does.

For someone to be saved he must hear the gospel in some way. Many have been saved simply by hearing the word of God--no works on their part, by reading the word of God in a tract--no works on their part, by reading the Word of God in the Bible--no works on their part, by listening to the word of God on a radio--no works on their part. They simply believed.

Baptism is a work where you are the recipient of man doing something to you, and man is initiating an action with you participating in it. Biblical baptism always involved an act of the will. Repent and then be baptized. Believe and then be baptized. Infants cannot be baptized for they cannot either repent or be baptized. Thus in the act or work of baptism the one being baptized is involved in the work of baptism as much as the one doing the baptizing.
There is no comparison here to Biblical salvation where one must simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. That is all.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

Do you deny that the good work is required in order for you to hear? What would happen if the good work wasn't there?

Would you be saved if you didn't hear in the first place?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
Do you deny that the good work is required in order for you to hear? What would happen if the good work wasn't there?

Would you be saved if you didn't hear in the first place?

I will not admit to something I did not DO.
Baptism is a work.
Here is what the Bible says.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There were no works involved in my salvation.
By your testimony baptism (a work) is needed.
Take your argument up with God. Ephesians 2:8,9 is very clear in this matter.

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

What would happen if you didn't hear the kerygma?

 

[Janosik]

My understanding of Ephesians 2:8-9 does not contradict what I am saying.
You look confused regarding to my questions and Ephesians 2:8-9. You should rethink it.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
My understanding of Ephesians 2:8-9 does not contradict what I am saying.
You look confused regarding to my questions and Ephesians 2:8-9. You should rethink it.

Baptism is a work. Eph.2:8,9 says salvation is not of works. As long as baptism is considered a part of salvation, it damns people to Hell.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

What would happen if you didn't hear the kerygma?

 

[DHK]

Read Romans 10:13-15.
The answer is there in black and white.
A person who does not hear the gospel, will not be saved. One is saved by believing the gospel message which they have heard. Why do you have a problem with this?

 

[Janosik]

So you agree that to hear the kerygma is necessary for the salvation. You also said that to spread the kerygma is the good work. So you got saved through good work. Why are you so affraid to admit that without this good work you wouldn't be saved.

Is the good work part of your salvation or not? Is the gift of the salvation passed to you through good work or not?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
So you agree that to hear the kerygma is necessary for the salvation. You also said that to spread the kerygma is the good work. So you got saved through good work. Why are you so afraid to admit that without this good work you wouldn't be saved.

Are you refusing to believe the Bible out of the hardness of your own heart.
No I did not get saved through any good work of my own doing. I got saved by believing in the shed blood of Christ.
Believing is not a work.
As far as spreading the gospel, preaching the gospel, etc. I was not the one who did those works. They were not MY works. The man may have offered m a cup of coffee as well. That also is a work. But it doesn't count toward my salvation. Those are HIS works not mine. I simply believed in the finished work of Christ, and that is all. There was no baptism, no joining of a church, no confirmation, no keeping of the Ten Commandments, nothing. I simply believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and was saved. There were no works involved.

Is the good work part of your salvation or not? Is the gift of the salvation passed to you through good work or not?

A gift is not a work. If a gift was a work it would not be a gift. I accepted the gift of God--salvation. I did not work for it. It was a gift that I accepted. There was no work involved. It was all of grace; the grace of God. Christ did all the work. It was the work of Christ on the cross. I only accepted his gift. I accepted it by faith.
Accepting a gift is not work.
Faith is not work
DHK

 

[Janosik]

Let me ask differently.
Do you agree that the good work of somebody else is required for your salvation?
Why are you so afraid to admit that without the good work of somebody else you wouldn't be saved?

 

[DHK]

The good works of others are not the point here. Yes others must go with the gospel and tell the unsaved world about Christ. That is the command of the Great Commission given in Mat.28:19,20. That is every Christian's obligation. But that has nothing to do with one's own salvation. You are inserting the obligation of a Christian into the salvation of an unsaved individual.

When an unsaved person comes to Christ he must come as a sinner; admit his sinfulness; his need of a Saviour, and by faith and faith alone (without any works whatsoever) trust Jesus Christ as his Saviour. There are no works involved. It is that simple. Is it clear now?
DHK

 

[Janosik]

Good work of others is point here. As you said and you agree that "others must go with the gospel..." If this does not happen you wouldn't be saved.

So good work is OK in your case but it's not OK with baptism? Why double standard? If the gift of salavation was passed to you through good works of others why it's wrong when the same gift of salvation was passed to me through baptism as you call it work of man?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
Good work of others is point here. As you said and you agree that "others must go with the gospel..." If this does not happen you wouldn't be saved.

This is true.

So good work is OK in your case but it's not OK with baptism? Why double standard? If the gift of salavation was passed to you through good works of others why it's wrong when the same gift of salvation was passed to me through baptism as you call it work of man?

There is no double standard. The gift of salvation was not passed on to me through any one's good works. I heard it and had the choice to reject it or receive it. I received, of my own will, the gospel message. It was God's gift to me.
Quite the contrary with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church imposed the work of baptism on an infant who had no choice in the matter. He did not have the option of believing or not believing. He could not repent. There was no choice involved.

In the case of a Catholic adult, the recipient of baptism is part of the work of baptism. He willingly partakes in the work of baptism.

The Bible says that it is the gospel that saves, not baptism. It says that you must be born again, not baptized. It says that you must call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, not baptized. It says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, not be baptized. Over and over again the Bible teaches to be saved one must believe or have faith, not be baptized.
Your argument is with the Bible, and with God, not with me.

The gift of God is not, and never was, passed through baptism. That is a heretical teaching of the RCC, which is not taught in the Bible.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

The Bible says that it is the gospel that saves...

Wow. You appear to be confused.

Christ's saving work saves. Don't you agree?
We were discussing the way how the saving work gets to a sinner.

There are multiple stages in your case. The gospel gets to you through good works of others then you repent (in my opinion it's good work on your side) and then you express your faith (in my opinion it's good work on your side as well). When I say 'good work' I mean a work that is caused by GRACE therefore there is nothing to boast about.

It is simpler in my case

. The Christ's saving work gets to me through baptism.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The Bible says that it is the gospel that saves...

Christ's saving work saves. Don't you agree?
We were discussing the way how the saving work gets to a sinner.</font>[/QUOTE]The saving work doesn't GET to a sinner.
The sinner receives it by faith.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast."

There are multiple stages in your case. The gospel gets to you through good works of others then you repent (in my opinion it's good work on your side) and then you express your faith (in my opinion it's good work on your side as well). When I say 'good work' I mean a work that is caused by GRACE therefore there is nothing to boast about.

No, a sinner hears the gospel and receives it by faith. There is no work involved. Receiving a gift is not a work.

If your child gives you a Christmas gift, what work will you have done to earn it? Will she have saved up her money and done the work to go and buy it or make it, as the case may be? Will she be the one to put the work into getting the gift? Or will you be the one doing all the work in receiving the gift? What work is there involved in receiving a gift from your child? None. There is no work in receiving a gift.

Salvation is recieving the gift of eternal life from God, by faith. It is as simple as that. Why can't you believe God on this. Do you call Him a liar?
DHK

 

[Bro Tony]

No, a sinner hears the gospel and receives it by faith. There is no work involved. Receiving a gift is not a work.

Bro Tony

 

[Janosik]

The saving work doesn't GET to a sinner.
The sinner receives it by faith.

What are you receiving??? How does the gift of salvation reach you??? At what point exactly?

 

[Janosik]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />No, a sinner hears the gospel and receives it by faith. There is no work involved. Receiving a gift is not a work.

</font>[/QUOTE]So you do not repent. You just receive. Nice