how to know you're really saved?

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The saving work doesn't GET to a sinner.
The sinner receives it by faith.

What are you receiving??? How does the gift of salvation reach you??? At what point exactly? </font>[/QUOTE]How do you receive a gift from a child? At what point exactly does it get to you?
"These truths are self-evident."

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />No, a sinner hears the gospel and receives it by faith. There is no work involved. Receiving a gift is not a work.

</font>[/QUOTE]So you do not repent. You just receive. Nice

</font>[/QUOTE]One receives Christ by faith. Saving faith includes repentance. It is not just head knowledge.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

So you do not receive gift of salvation you receive Christ. At what point does the Holy Spirit come? Do Christ and the Holy Spirit stay together? Does Christ leaves and the Holy Spirit stays? How is it?

What is your definition of work. What is work. Define work, please.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
So you do not receive gift of salvation you receive Christ. At what point does the Holy Spirit come? Do Christ and the Holy Spirit stay together? Does Christ leaves and the Holy Spirit stays? How is it?

"Call upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved."
The instant you call upon the name of the Lord, Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit comes and dwells within you. His Spirit unites with our spirit regenrating it (giving it life). Before that time it was dead in trespasses in sin (Eph.2:1). Christ and the Holy Spirit play different functions or roles, yet in reality they are inseparable for all three: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one unified Godhead, with whom we have a personal relationship once we are born again. It is an instantaneous process. Believe, and thou shalt be saved. Many people have heard the gospel many times, in fact for years. They simply have to make that decision to believe on Christ. It is a decision that is made from the heart, not merely an intellectual assent.

What is your definition of work. What is work. Define work, please.

And act is something that man does in order to merit something. Baptism is a work. Baptism involves only man. It is done by man to man in order to merit the grace of God.
Believing is not a work. It is simply receiving the gift of God by faith.
In Romans 4, it describes or refets to all the works of Abraham--how he was called out the Ur of Chaldees, how he went to a land that he knew not, how sacrificed his only son, etc. These were all works done in obedience to God. He wasn't saved because of these works. The Bible explicitly says that he was saved by believing God, and nothing more. His belief was not a work. It is totally differentiated from all of his works.

So one is saved by grace through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. (Eph.2:8,9)
DHK

 

[Janosik]

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

The instant you call upon the name of the Lord, Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit comes and dwells within you.

Does it mean that the Holy Spirit enters people described by Jesus as well? If yes then you have OSAS issue. If not then it's not enough to call upon the name of the Lord for your salvation.

And act is something that man does in order to merit something.

Here is your problem. You should go back to school because your definition of work is very narrow.

Webster on work (only the first two items):

1 : activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something: a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result b : the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood c : a specific task, duty, function, or assignment often being a part or phase of some larger activity
2 a : energy expended by natural phenomena b : the result of such energy &lt;sand dunes are the work of sea and wind&gt; c : the transference of energy that is produced by the motion of the point of application of a force and is measured by multiplying the force and the displacement of its point of application in the line of action

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

The instant you call upon the name of the Lord, Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit comes and dwells within you.

[QB]

Does it mean that the Holy Spirit enters people described by Jesus as well? If yes then you have OSAS issue. If not then it's not enough to call upon the name of the Lord for your salvation.

Of course it means that the Holy Spirit enters people described by Jesus. He said "all that ever comes to me I will in no way cast out."
I don't have a problem with OSAS. Pehaps you do. The Bible plainly teaches it. You have to think of this one very simple concept. The Bible says in many different places that the gift of God is "eternal life" which I receive when I get saved. (Rom.6:23; Eph.2:8,9; John 10:27-30; John 5:24). If this be true, then if it were possible for me to lose my salvation in any way, my eternal life would no longer be eternal. It would only be temporal and Jesus Christ would be found to be a liar. He would be lying because He said that He gave me eternal life. Eternal life can never end. Therefore I cannot lose it. By its very definition it cannot be lost. The gift of God is eternal life. Is Jesus Christ a liar? You decide.

And act is something that man does in order to merit something.

Here is your problem. You should go back to school because your definition of work is very narrow.

Webster on work (only the first two items):
1 : activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something: a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result b : the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood c : a specific task, duty, function, or assignment often being a part or phase of some larger activity
2 a : energy expended by natural phenomena b : the result of such energy &lt;sand dunes are the work of sea and wind&gt; c : the transference of energy that is produced by the motion of the point of application of a force and is measured by multiplying the force and the displacement of its point of application in the line of action

My definition concurs with yours. Look carefully:
--an activity which one exerts strength. I don't disagree.
--energy expended.
I don't disagree here either.
Both of these fit the work of baptism.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

If this is true:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

and this is true

Of course it means that the Holy Spirit enters people described by Jesus.

then your definition of the way how the gift of salvation is granted to you

The instant you call upon the name of the Lord, Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit comes and dwells within you.

and OSAS exclude each other.


How comfortable to skip this:

sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result

By the way the word 'merit' is not mentioned at all in the definition of work as you used it.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
If this is true:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

There are many people that use the name Lord: Catholics, J.W.'s, Mormons, and even Muslims. But that doesn't make them Christians according to the Bible. It doesn't mean that they have trusted Chrisst as their Saviour. It doesn't mean that they have been born again. So what if they have addressed Christ as Lord. That means nothing. A Hindu can do that. It is meaningless unless it comes from the heart, and the person has actually trusted Christ as Saviour.

[QB]

and this is true

Of course it means that the Holy Spirit enters people described by Jesus.

then your definition of the way how the gift of salvation is granted to you

The instant you call upon the name of the Lord, Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit comes and dwells within you.

and OSAS exclude each other.

</font>

How do they exclude each other. I ask you again. Define eternal life. Is Jesus Christ a liar?

How comfortable to skip this:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result

By the way the word 'merit' is not mentioned at all in the definition of work as you used it. </font>[/QUOTE]And so, why is that important to you?
Baptism is a work that uses sustained physical ORmental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result. Is that true or not? Do you have an object in mind when someone is baptized? Is it to attain the grace of God so-called. Is it to pour water on someone? Does that take physical effort? Does it gain merit in the sight of God, as far as you are concerned? Do you have to overcome some obstacles to attain that objective? (going to the church, preparing for it, etc.) Baptism meets every single requirement for a work of man.
DHK

 

[Janosik]

My understanding of

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

is that it includes EVERYONE!!!

It is you who are looking for different meaning.


My point is that the mental effort is considered work as well. Therefore accepting the gift of salvation is also work (to repent, to express faith, to call upon the Lord). This good work is caused by GRACE therefore there is nothing to boast about.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Janosik:
My understanding of </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

is that it includes EVERYONE!!!

It is you who are looking for different meaning.</font>[/QUOTE]Your understanding is wrong. You need to look at the context. Jesus is speaking of false teachers. Look at the verses before:

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The entire context is speaking of false teachers, false prophets, not everyone in general. THEREFORE, not every one that says to me; "Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven..."
He is speaking of false prophets because they pretend to do the will of the Father and do not. They are wolves in sheep clothing. This is what Christ is speaking of, not a works salvation. The Bible does not contradict itself. Eph.2:8,9 is very specific. Either you believe it you don't.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God NOT OF WORKS, les any man should boast." Does the Holy Spirit of God, who penned these words lie?

My point is that the mental effort is considered work as well. Therefore accepting the gift of salvation is also work (to repent, to express faith, to call upon the Lord). This good work is caused by GRACE therefore there is nothing to boast about.

Where on earth do you get the idea that accepting a gift is work. I have demonstrated this to you again and again. Accepting a gift is not work. The person who has worked and wrought the gift that he is presenting to you has done the work on your behalf. All that you do is accept it. That is not work, not according to your definitions that you provided, not according to any definition. Accepting a gift is not work.
Mental effort?? Surely you jest? What mental effort is required in accepting a gift?

"The good work is caused by grace."
Yes that is absolutely true. Grace is God's unmerited favor toward man. Grace is not man's work; it is God's work for man. Grace is something that man receives of God.
The Bible says that the rain falls upon the just and the unjust. The sun shines upon the just and the unjust. Please tell me how hard did you work in order to make the rain fall? How hard did you work in order to make the sun shine? That is the grace of God. It is that which God gives us that we don't deserve. He gives us salvation freely even though we don't deserve it. It is a free gift of God. We simply ask for it by faith. There is no work involved. Christ did all the work on the cross. To think that you could help out Christ on the cross and pay part of the penalty for your own sin by your own works is like spitting in the face of God, and an insult to the atoning work of Christ.
DHK

 

[Gina B]

Since a number of Jimbo Jones posts are seeking the same type of help, all concerned with his issues may respond in the single thread I will leave open.
Please redirect your comments to that thread, located at the following link:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/2885.html#000004