How to make disciples

[evangelist6589]

I argue that in order to see disciples a disciple has to get saved first. At our church we have men's discipleship but its meant for christians. My critics like to criticize me for not being able to make disciples, but not once that I can remember have they offered me a "How to guide" on how to make disciples given that I work usually 6 days a week. The REASON I street preach, talk with the lost (not once did I say you cant obey the Great Commission by just talking with the lost), pass out gospel tracts, and even write letters to individuals (not an organization) is to see people saved and to make disciples! So I am all for making disciples!

Please lets not turn this thread into an attack on me, but rather a How to guide on making disciples.

 

[reformed_baptist]

I argue that in order to see disciples a disciple has to get saved first.

I'm not sure I am following you here - surely a disciple (in our context) is someone who is already saved - the term means follower and that strongly implies salvation.

Now, generally speaking it takes a follower to make a follower - however God in his grace has used unbelievers to save people before - indeed there accounts of men being saved by their own preaching!

At our church we have men's discipleship but its meant for christians.

I don't think that is a good idea - discipleship is not something that can be taught for an hour or two a week rather it is vocation, something that is caught as much as it is taught as such it comes quite naturally in the life of the church - a person comes under the teaching of the church - they are converted - they are baptized into the church - they encouraged within that fellowship to grow in understanding and love, they are brought into avenues of service - that is discipleship.

My critics like to criticize me for not being able to make disciples, but not once that I can remember have they offered me a "How to guide" on how to make disciples given that I work usually 6 days a week.

It isn't all about 'you' - discipleship is the duty of the local church - it is something you play a part in. So, for example, you might be able to take someone out with you in your tracting - that is discipling (?) that person. Going round to meet your fellow believer for a time of prayer - that is discipling them. Anything you do to help another believer follow the Lord Jesus Christ is an opportunity to disciple that person. Your part of a team!

The REASON I street preach, talk with the lost (not once did I say you cant obey the Great Commission by just talking with the lost), pass out gospel tracts, and even write letters to individuals (not an organization) is to see people saved and to make disciples! So I am all for making disciples!

From my perspective it is not that these things are bad (I believe they are good and have their place - as I have said numerous times before) - and I do not question your zeal - I just think it needs enlarging and there is a bigger picture.

We all make time for the things that are the most important in our lives - the person who loves football will find time to watch the game - the person who likes fishing will make time to be by the river - the person who wants to make disciples will find time to do that - this isn't a personal attack - this is my advice, given from a heart of love - here are some things to think about:

1) The time it takes to write one of letters, how else might you use that time? Is there someone struggling in your church that you could visit to encourage in the Lord? You don't have to stop the letter writing if you really think that is important - just mix it up with other things

2) Instead of tracting for an hour might you, on occasions why not ask someone in the church who hasn't professed conversion to go out for a coffee and talk to them about spiritual things? Again, you can tract the next week (and maybe take someone with you) but this week your focus is different.

That's just a couple of suggestions - I am not saying stop tracting or stop going out on the streets - I am saying broaden your horizons a little bit - think about what else you are able to do as well.

Please lets not turn this thread into an attack on me, but rather a How to guide on making disciples.

I'm not sure a 'how to guide' is helpful - there isn't a '5 steps to making disciples' that can be spelled out. Rather, in essence, it is incredibly simple - it is about helping others to follow Jesus - in every case that is different, it might mean helping that person practically with material needs they have - it might mean praying with them - studying scripture with them - it might mean rebuking them in love - it might mean crying with them or smiling with them - in some cases it is as simple as sitting with them in a service - listening to them for 5 minutes after the service - other times it might be a heavy time, effort or financial investment.

If you want a model for discipleship then look to the Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples, or look to Paul and those like Timothy and Luke that he gathered around him - it is all about being with people - spending time with people - showing people through your example - teaching people.

The thing about making disciples is that it requires investment - it requires putting the other person first - thinking of their needs (and not our own) - it requires love and grace - to be effective we have to have the mind of Christ.

 

[Rolfe]

Please lets not turn this thread into an attack on me, ...

Noteworthy that you refer to yourself nine times in the paragraph before you ask that this thread not be about you.

As for a 'How To', it is simple. Get to know someone, become a friend to them, share Light that you know, and accompany them on their spiritual walk.

 

[Don]

People spending time with people; accompany them on their walk -- NICE.

The thing about "The Purpose-Driven Life" book that really failed was that people looked at it as "the formula" or "the how-to guide"; when really, it was "this is what worked for me." Any book is how it worked for that person, and is meant as suggestions that *could possibly* work for any of the rest of us. Shucks, I have one management book that's about 300 pages, and I only keep it because of one thing in it.

So here's my suggestion, building on what's already been provided. Got a new or relatively recent convert in your church? Talk to them at church. Ask them if they want to help you with a daily study. Start with a few verses in John 1. Talk to them daily, and ask them for *their* thoughts and understanding of the daily assignment; and see if they have any questions. Make sure you both write down what you discussed.

You'll both learn, both fulfilling "iron sharpeneth iron," and both draw closer as you draw closer to God (James 4).

 

[HankD]

I argue that in order to see disciples a disciple has to get saved first. At our church we have men's discipleship but its meant for christians. My critics like to criticize me for not being able to make disciples, but not once that I can remember have they offered me a "How to guide" on how to make disciples given that I work usually 6 days a week. The REASON I street preach, talk with the lost (not once did I say you cant obey the Great Commission by just talking with the lost), pass out gospel tracts, and even write letters to individuals (not an organization) is to see people saved and to make disciples! So I am all for making disciples!
Please lets not turn this thread into an attack on me, but rather a How to guide on making disciples.

I agree. I start out with the concept in these passages below. Babes need milk, bread and eventually the meat of the word and guidance to put their food into the action of life.

Just for starters:
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Methodology:
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Friberg 00573 sincere - adolon without fraud, guileless
As much as possible we should lead the babes to the milk but not force an interpretation upon them. Discovery via the Holy Spirit is the key. As under-shepherds we guide them along to the green pastures
correcting the path where appropriate - don't be or show surprise with their misconceptions, God uses His Spirit and human instruments as well to teach. Encourage them in spite of their lack of knowledge.

Friberg 02067 desire - epipotheo long for, desire
Babes are born with this desire, We shouldn't kill it with meat - nurture it with milk until they grow teeth.

We should be CAREFUL:
1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

I'm afraid that at the bema seat many "teachers" will "be saved yet so as by fire" (1 Corinthians 3:15) and
James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

We should not choke the babes with doctrines and expectations beyond their limitations per Hebrews 5:12.

Where to start: The person of Jesus Christ (of course).
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

This is just a sample and admittedly the Hebrews Prologue is a big mouthful for babes so go slowly each verse of the prologue should be considered and a springboard to each of His glorious works,

Or other passages pointing to His glory, deity and Lordship whom babes love with a pure love - we should be careful to not mess it up!

Like I said - just for starters.

HankD

 

[Rolfe]

People spending time with people; accompany them on their walk -- NICE.

Don, I can be a slow study at times. Is 'NICE' intended to be an acrostic that I do not know about?

If I am over-thinking it, it would not be the first time.

 

[Yeshua1]

I argue that in order to see disciples a disciple has to get saved first. At our church we have men's discipleship but its meant for christians. My critics like to criticize me for not being able to make disciples, but not once that I can remember have they offered me a "How to guide" on how to make disciples given that I work usually 6 days a week. The REASON I street preach, talk with the lost (not once did I say you cant obey the Great Commission by just talking with the lost), pass out gospel tracts, and even write letters to individuals (not an organization) is to see people saved and to make disciples! So I am all for making disciples!

Please lets not turn this thread into an attack on me, but rather a How to guide on making disciples.

Have the recently saved get involved in a local cell group, and also have them into a mentor program with another brother, to have an accountbility partner with them!

 

[Baptist Believer]

I argue that in order to see disciples a disciple has to get saved first.

Those who enter into discipleship are "saved." Those who do not enter into discipleship cannot have confidence in salvation.

At our church we have men's discipleship but its meant for christians.

I don't know what that means. Is it formal training on how to be a disciple of Jesus (learning how to obey His commands, live His lifestyle, and experience transformation of character) or something else?

...not once that I can remember have they offered me a "How to guide" on how to make disciples...

Jesus gave us a "how to" guide in what is commonly called "The Great Commission," among other places.

Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

(1) We have authority in all things under the Lordship of Christ. Nothing can stop us from fulfilling the Lord's calling in our lives as long as we are obedience and responsive to the Lord's direction and command. We must realize that we are part of a much larger plan and process, and what may seem insignificant to us often has huge implications for the present and future. This is also no guarantee that we will avoid martyrdom or persecution. In fact, it is quite likely obedience to Christ will have a cost. We must simply be confidently obedient to the Lord's direction and calling.

(2) We are to make disciples (apprentices) of Jesus by (a) immersing ("baptizing") others the present reality, power and authority of the Father, Son and Spirit, which happens through (b) obedience to all of the commands and example of Jesus. Historically, Christians have employed long-known means of character transformation by way of prayer, meditation on scripture, study, fasting, and other disciples of indulgence and denial. Dallas Willard, among others, has quite a few helpful resources in this regard, including the books, The Spirit of the Disciplines, Hearing God, and Renovation of the Heart. There are also a number of articles on his website that are worth a read. You probably won't agree with everything he has written (I don't), but they are an excellent way to get you to think about approaching aspects of the Christian life quite intentionally.

Although he went to be the Lord a few years ago, I had the opportunity to interact with him a few times and he was the real deal.

 

[Yeshua1]

Our very statement of faith included that we are to make more and better disciples of jesus, as all churches are required to do that task!

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm not sure I am following you here - surely a disciple (in our context) is someone who is already saved - the term means follower and that strongly implies salvation.

Now, generally speaking it takes a follower to make a follower - however God in his grace has used unbelievers to save people before - indeed there accounts of men being saved by their own preaching!



I don't think that is a good idea - discipleship is not something that can be taught for an hour or two a week rather it is vocation, something that is caught as much as it is taught as such it comes quite naturally in the life of the church - a person comes under the teaching of the church - they are converted - they are baptized into the church - they encouraged within that fellowship to grow in understanding and love, they are brought into avenues of service - that is discipleship.



It isn't all about 'you' - discipleship is the duty of the local church - it is something you play a part in. So, for example, you might be able to take someone out with you in your tracting - that is discipling (?) that person. Going round to meet your fellow believer for a time of prayer - that is discipling them. Anything you do to help another believer follow the Lord Jesus Christ is an opportunity to disciple that person. Your part of a team!



From my perspective it is not that these things are bad (I believe they are good and have their place - as I have said numerous times before) - and I do not question your zeal - I just think it needs enlarging and there is a bigger picture.

We all make time for the things that are the most important in our lives - the person who loves football will find time to watch the game - the person who likes fishing will make time to be by the river - the person who wants to make disciples will find time to do that - this isn't a personal attack - this is my advice, given from a heart of love - here are some things to think about:

1) The time it takes to write one of letters, how else might you use that time? Is there someone struggling in your church that you could visit to encourage in the Lord? You don't have to stop the letter writing if you really think that is important - just mix it up with other things

2) Instead of tracting for an hour might you, on occasions why not ask someone in the church who hasn't professed conversion to go out for a coffee and talk to them about spiritual things? Again, you can tract the next week (and maybe take someone with you) but this week your focus is different.

That's just a couple of suggestions - I am not saying stop tracting or stop going out on the streets - I am saying broaden your horizons a little bit - think about what else you are able to do as well.



I'm not sure a 'how to guide' is helpful - there isn't a '5 steps to making disciples' that can be spelled out. Rather, in essence, it is incredibly simple - it is about helping others to follow Jesus - in every case that is different, it might mean helping that person practically with material needs they have - it might mean praying with them - studying scripture with them - it might mean rebuking them in love - it might mean crying with them or smiling with them - in some cases it is as simple as sitting with them in a service - listening to them for 5 minutes after the service - other times it might be a heavy time, effort or financial investment.

If you want a model for discipleship then look to the Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples, or look to Paul and those like Timothy and Luke that he gathered around him - it is all about being with people - spending time with people - showing people through your example - teaching people.

The thing about making disciples is that it requires investment - it requires putting the other person first - thinking of their needs (and not our own) - it requires love and grace - to be effective we have to have the mind of Christ.

Let me respond to this well thought out post on my Mac tomorrow.

 

[evangelist6589]

Noteworthy that you refer to yourself nine times in the paragraph before you ask that this thread not be about you.

As for a 'How To', it is simple. Get to know someone, become a friend to them, share Light that you know, and accompany them on their spiritual walk.

There is a guy at work that needs help. I bought him a book once. Not sure if he is saved as he thought living with his girlfriend is okay. His girlfriend died of a drug over dose recently.

 

[evangelist6589]

People spending time with people; accompany them on their walk -- NICE.

The thing about "The Purpose-Driven Life" book that really failed was that people looked at it as "the formula" or "the how-to guide"; when really, it was "this is what worked for me." Any book is how it worked for that person, and is meant as suggestions that *could possibly* work for any of the rest of us. Shucks, I have one management book that's about 300 pages, and I only keep it because of one thing in it.

So here's my suggestion, building on what's already been provided. Got a new or relatively recent convert in your church? Talk to them at church. Ask them if they want to help you with a daily study. Start with a few verses in John 1. Talk to them daily, and ask them for *their* thoughts and understanding of the daily assignment; and see if they have any questions. Make sure you both write down what you discussed.

You'll both learn, both fulfilling "iron sharpeneth iron," and both draw closer as you draw closer to God (James 4).

I can always send an email to the church secretary and ask for recent converts.

 

[Yeshua1]

There is a guy at work that needs help. I bought him a book once. Not sure if he is saved as he thought living with his girlfriend is okay. His girlfriend died of a drug over dose recently.

Have you asked him to go to church with you?

 

[evangelist6589]

Have you asked him to go to church with you?

I can always try

 

[Don]

Don, I can be a slow study at times. Is 'NICE' intended to be an acrostic that I do not know about?

If I am over-thinking it, it would not be the first time.

Nope. Just an emphatic agreement.

 

[Yeshua1]

I can always try

We have a coupl who are not yet saved, but the girlfriend now attending my cell group, and trying to get her boyfriend into church, and he just came out Good friday service, so hopefully build on that?
And we discuss with her the bible and doctrines and God grace in our lives, not bashing her to hurry up and quit liviing in sin, as she needs a change of heart before addressing that!

 

[blessedwife318]

When I was in college I was discipling a girl. We started by studying John. It helped that my pastor was preaching through John at the time. She would read and list questions she had. Also she came with me to church and she would list question she had from the sermon as well. Then we would go through her questions and I would answer them pointing to Scripture (as that is where the power is). Eventually she trusted Christ as her Savior and we continued to meet and read through Scripture together. The amount of growth was amazing and I credit that there were multiple people in the Church helping her in her walk.

As far as time, people always find time for what is important to them. I was a full time Student and working 30 hours a week as was she, but we always found time to meet during the week because it was important to both of us.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Revmitchell]

My critics like to criticize me for not being able to make disciples,

Uh you in fact argued that you did not need to make disciples. In fact you used Mark 16:15 to defend you unwillingness to even try. The "critics" as you call them only responded to your posts suggesting that street preaching is supposed to be the primary means of evangelism.

but not once that I can remember have they offered me a "How to guide" on how to make disciples given that I work usually 6 days a week.

You must first be ready to listen to the fact that the Great Commission requires we make disciples of which you have, post after post, refused to do.

The REASON I street preach, talk with the lost (not once did I say you cant obey the Great Commission by just talking with the lost),

Uh yes you did again you even used Mark 16:15 as your defense.

pass out gospel tracts, and even write letters to individuals (not an organization) is to see people saved and to make disciples! So I am all for making disciples!

That has not been your position in the past. This is new of you.

Please lets not turn this thread into an attack on me, but rather a How to guide on making disciples.

So you throw out criticism of anyone who has not agreed with you in the past. Intentionally misrepresent your position on the board in the past, and then ask that no one respond to you incorrect claims in this post? Really?

Had you really wanted to just ask about how to make disciples you should have left out the false commentary of the past and simply asked to have a discussion on disciple making without all the drama. Instead you want to defend your past positions and then act like this thread is not about your defense in this op. You are being inconsistent and disingenuous.

 

[HankD]

Over and over we are told (along with Peter) Feed my sheep, feed my lambs...
It is important however that we feed them correctly, gently (and yes a little roughly if necessary).

And to be patient...

2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

This is to "the servant" - not necessarily a "male" but women also in the proper venue of course

2 Timothy 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.

1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

How many souls will be in glory through the instrumentation of women!?
Multitudes I suspect.

HankD

 

[Rolfe]

There is a guy at work that needs help. I bought him a book once. Not sure if he is saved as he thought living with his girlfriend is okay. His girlfriend died of a drug over dose recently.

Evan- It is good that you thought of him.

My own observation. Most people are not readers of books. Whether it is lack of patience or short attention spans, I do not know.

People do generally respond to friendliness. I think that many are lonely to some extent, more so after suffering loss. Were I to guess, I would think that being a friend to him would be more beneficial than a book (unless it is Scripture).