How to separate the pretenders from the believers

I'm with you so far.

Oops... you lost me. Don't assume. If you want to know, just ask.

Not necessarily true, although I probably work within a little more freedom than you would give if you were my pastor. Now, that's an assumption on my part, but based on what you've said here.

Whatever works for you. I'm kidding of course. You are saying that because I'm a little more "normative" than you, that I'd be passing out free ammunition to hunters as they came in. No way, man! But by the same token, for every amount of fun we have with our youth and kids and adults, there's quite a bit of Bible Study, worship, and teaching going on. Our church doesn't fellowship very much just for the sake of fellowship. Not even as much as other churches I've been a part of.

That, my friend, is your opinion. And that's why there are churches everywhere that support that opinion. Go there. It's not that you're not welcome here, but you probably wouldn't be very happy. Again, an assumption. Guess I shouldn't be making those, huh?

 

Time for a break in the action:

 

J.D.,

I would welcome you... and love to meet you!

I would also agree that entertainment is NOT what it's all about. As the song "Clear the Stage" so eloquently put, "worship is more than a song."

God bless you brother, and if you're ever in Branson, come by the church and I'll take you to lunch after worship.

 

TT -

That's awesome!

 

Perhaps someone can explain why anywhere from seventy to eighty eight pecent (all depending on which poll you use, Barna is 88%) of children growing up in an evangelical church leave with in two years of their 18th birthday never to return.

 

My church doesn't have a youth program. But if we cut out our senior adult ministries; luncheons, day trips, quilting fellowships, after church fellowships, other events that don't take place during our worship and Bible study times, maybe we can get rid of them. After all, they're just old.

 

No I don't.

But I don't see anything wrong with Christian fellowship in and outside of the church as long as your priorities are in line.

I'm comfortable having a Saturday evening family fellowship night. Grill some burgers, watch the kids play red rover, red rover. Talk about where the fish are biting. Ask everyone how their families are doing. Go home and be back in the house of God for Worship and to study the Word of God.

I think there is a healthy balance in that. Why should we stop the fellowship? I rather like my Christian fellowship.

 

I'm kind of in the middle on this. I see no problem with clean entertainment for fellowship. (Outside of the services, of course.) I also have no problem with limited entertainment for outreach, such as VBS. (Church is for saved people, outreach and evangelism outside the church is for the unsaved.)

But, where the problem comes in is when the entertainment becomes the focus.

Have a gym where fellow Christian can shoot some hoops? Sure, if you can afford it. Have people attending just because you have the nicest gym? Problem.

Have pizza for youth fellowship? Sounds good. What time? Have pizza as a reward for showing up? Problem.

Sometimes, the problems aren't even visible, they are in the hearts of the individuals.

 

It isn't our job to separate the pretenders from the believers anyhow!

Sometimes I wonder where some people get their high-faultin' ideas.

 

"I coulda been a pretendah..."

 

I don't understand how "entertainment" is linked to being wrong or sinful. I ENJOY worshiping the Lord. It's ENTERTAINING to listen to my pastor preach the Word of God and take notes, learn and grow as a Christian, sing praises, and fellowship with fellow believers. It makes no difference if you like drums, dislike music altogether and like to sing acapella (sp?)...the fact is EVERYONE likes something. Even liking nothing is liking something, meaning you are entertained by not liking anything.

 

Dude!!!!! That is epic....I know God is impressed, even if I am not.

J </font>[/QUOTE]I like the "accepted 5 point Calvinism..."

If he's a five pointer, he accepted nothing...it was already predetermined and accepted for him. My question to J.D. is...why did God predetermin that you believe the "lie" of non calvinism for 35 years?

 

J.D. would be suprised to know that I would have a hard time 'rageing' against calvinsim...for I would be raging against something that I hold to...however, If he does want me to 'rage' against elitism...well here it goes...


RRRRRRAAAAAAAGGGGGGEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

Man, I feel better

j

 

J.D.,

He might be wondering what "accepted 5 point Calvinism in 2004" has to do with a "short statement of salvation". I think it's a fair question, even if it is off topic.

Back on topic, I don't think we ought to risk losing some wheat just so we can get rid of the tares.

 

J.D.

I am not mad or upset brother...really I am just kinda kidding around a little. Your profile does not bother me...it is simply humorous, in and that you equate the acceptance of Jesus seemingly on the same level as your coming to understand the doctrines of grace. Elitist...most calvinist I know come across as extremely arogant. Now again, I hold to the 5 points...but THEY ARE NOT THE GOSPEL nor or they to be equated with the gospel. It is simply my observation that there are those who live out the doctrines of grace through warm hearted evangelism, soul winning and New Testament ministry...then there are those who argue.

But then again, who am I to be so dogmatic?

J