How to tell whether you are chosen

hi wes...if this is what you mean...here is my answer posted from that site.

if not...please ask me again

thanks

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Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psa 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

Since a fool said it I don't pay much attenetion to it. He also said there is no God. Why should we pay any attenetion to such nonsense. The whole reason of following Christ is seeking God.


May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

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Hi there luvlight,

We have never talked and it is my pleasure to do so. My studies are in Greek History, so i do know a small amount of Greek. However Hebrew is not one of my strong points. I do however remember a few things about the psalm. And i remember a style..or a form..or something like that...in which you find psalms. Now Maybe texas can help us with this part. I'll give you the little i know...but i may speak as a fool..so make sure you check me out.

But..if i remember right. They are wrote in groups of thoughts in order to compound one point. Most of the time this is done in groups of 3...but not always. One must undersand this style to fully get the meaning of the psalms. This is not like proverbs where you see comparing one side to the other.

Like..a fool says....but the wise says...........

So lets look at this psalm you pointed out..and see what it says.

i will break the groups the way i see them. You may see them a bit diffrent then i...but we should be close.

ok..here we go.

verse 1
The fool says in his heart,
a)"There is no God."
b)They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
c)there is no one who does good.
You see here 3 statements..all with the same point. The point "the fools heart".
The fools heart starts with "there is no God
The fools heart is corrupt and vile
The fool does no good.

verse 2   
The LORD looks down from heaven
a)on the sons of men
b)to see if there are any who understand,
c)any who seek God.


the point is..God looks at man
he looks down on the sons of men
He looks..(see)..if any man understands
He looks for any that seek God


Verse 3
All have turned aside,
a) they have together become corrupt;
b) there is no one who does good,
c) not even one.
The point is...all men
all are corrupt
all do no good
(all is in the negative here)...none


Verse 4-5
Will evildoers never learn—
a) those who devour my people as men eat bread
b) and who do not call on the LORD ?
c) There they are, overwhelmed with dread,

point...men never learn
men devour others
men do not call on God
men are overwhelmed with dread

David now looks at God.

"for God is present in the company of the righteous.

Verse 7
 Oh, that salvation
a)for Israel would come out of Zion!
b)When the LORD restores the fortunes of his people,
C)let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

the salvation of Israel is the point
salvation comes from God...or maybe out of heaven
Salvation comes when God restores fortunes
With salvation comes praise.

so what is the context?

I think you will find it hard to say this is the fool talking, but rather this is God talking about mankind. You see this all the way though the other verses...so if you back up and read the 1st verse again...you will see this is God calling man a fool for not believeing in God. even if you do not believe this part....please tell me you see it is God talking about man in verse 3...which is the verse i ask texas to place in order.

Ok now back to paul...you will find just as RC said. Paul uses this text as if it is man. If it is not man, then paul is quoting out of context..and i'm sure you do not think this.

So...i say without any doubt..this is MANKIND. I say too...this is God looking at man

So....where do we place this statement..
"no one seeks God?


I hope this helps..

In Christ...james

 

WHO was it said ABOUT?</font>[/QUOTE] It was said about everyone. "What shall we say then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise. For we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, they are all under sin." (As I remember it. Feel free to correct my memory.)

When God inspired Paul to write a great book on grace.

Because Paul was inspired to indict all men of their sinfulness and need for a Savior.

The eternal Word of God.

Did you actually say that?

You ignore the context of that very scripture. You ignore the context of John 1 and 3. You ignore the context of Romans 8.

.... and now you are lecturing someone else about context?

Wes, You are a constant... and that is by no means a good thing in this case.

 

Oh let's see, David, the beloved Psalmist King in reviewing HISTORY, was probably refering to Noah's days, or maybe Sodom and Gomorrah, more likely Noah's days where he determined to destroy the whole lot of them, save for the one righteous man on whom he looked favorably.

And of course, David, the prophet could have been looking forward to our time. But if you can't do that, how did David?

 

Scottj,
Paul is quoting DAVID!

I hope when your eyes are finally opened, that you will see, that I have indeed considered the Context all the time!

 

No part of the Bible before Judges, maybe even later has any theology of heaven or hell.

 

Wes, Paul was operating under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Any point you might have been trying to make is moot by this fact. His quotation of David is no less authoritative than if it originated with him. His application of it is inerrant.

Nope. Paul set the context immediately prior to quoting it. It is an indictment of all Jews and Gentiles. Period.

 

so let me get this right wes...
you are saying this....

paul is talking to a group of men here..and not all?

in this passage

for I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, 10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands, no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one."

 

Wes, Paul was operating under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Any point you might have been trying to make is moot by this fact. His quotation of David is no less authoritative than if it originated with him. His application of it is inerrant.

Nope. Paul set the context immediately prior to quoting it. It is an indictment of all Jews and Gentiles. Period. </font>[/QUOTE]oops..scott beat me.

i have yet to see this view. most say this is the fool talking in another twist.

sorry for laughing wes...it just funny at 1st

 

If he holds true to form, Wes will respond with something that really doesn't answer the question.

Sort of like the white kid on "A Few Good Men". When caught in his inconsistency, he tried to talk about something different. When asked about the fact that he couldn't have witnessed the order to "code red" the victim, he said something like "But sir... you see the "pick-up private" had a flat..."

Wes seems to recognize that there are gaping holes in his arguments but he can't bring himself to deal with them.

 

My post did answer the question that was on the screen. Do you have another question that I did not see on the screen?

 

yes i have one wes...

for I have already charged that ALL men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin,

what does all mean?

those that hold to freewill say all means all....does it?

 

You have not dealt with the immediate context as set by Paul's words immediately prior to the quote.

You have done nothing more than declare that you are right and are dealing with the context... falsely declared.

 

to me all DOES mean all

the list a posted

1)God is
2)God makes man
3)Man falls into sin
4)God gives a promise of redemption
5)Christ comes
6)God invites all to be saved
7)Man believes and is saved

God invites ALL to be saved

does ALL men are under the power of sin mean ALL?
does no one seeks God mean NNE?

 

yes i have one wes...

for I have already charged that ALL men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin,

what does all mean?

those that hold to freewill say all means all....does it? </font>[/QUOTE]All means every one out of all. And since "jews and Greeks" as used, is all inclusive of mankind, ALL means all mankind.

YES, All means all in that all mankind is subject to the power of sin because man, the species, has the INHERITED propensity to sin, no man is exempt from it. However there is more to the story than your question allows.

 

that is fair wes.

go on and express the rest of the story

i'm going home

i'll check back next week


In Christ..have a good weekend.....james

 

As David used it, probably not!

As Paul used it, I'm not sure at this moment because I do not have the context of Paul's use of it in front of me. I'll respond more when I do.

 

OK,

"As scripture says? What scripture is Paul quoting?

Who is the "They" that are devouring God's people? Are God's people included in the "not a single one" since they are being devoured?

 

Hello Wes.

He is meaning those who know the law are just as bad as those who don't. We all like sheep are the Christians. We are Israel. We are the stiff-necked ones! As He speaks to Israel He speaks to the Church!
He is not speaking of non-Christians but He addresses us. We all like sheep have gone astray.

john.

 

As David used it, probably not!

As Paul used it, I'm not sure at this moment because I do not have the context of Paul's use of it in front of me. I'll respond more when I do. </font>[/QUOTE]Wes,

You have overlooked one very importune truth of the Bible and how God tells us about truth and himself. You think the OT is saying something different then the NT. This is not the case at all. The NT tells us what the OT means. What you do not understand is progressive revelation. All the OT must be read in light of the NT. This helps us understand why some of the passages are in the OT.

please consider heb 1

heb1
5 For to what angel did God ever say, "Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee"?
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this comes from psalms2. do you think the writer, when writing thought he was writing of God the father...or God the Son?
If we consider only the OT, we would think it was God the Father. The writer of Heb shows why this verse is in the OT...and tells us it is speaking of Christ.
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Psalms 2
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the LORD has them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 "I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill." 7 I will tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my son, today I have begotten you. 8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." 10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth.

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heb 1:5b
Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"?
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this comes from 2 sam. do you think the writer, when writing thought he was writing of david...or Christ?
If we consider only the OT, we would think it was david. The writer of Heb shows why this is in the OT...and it is there to show something about Christ.
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2sam
12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come forth from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. When he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men;

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heb 1
6 And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
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this comes from deut 32.. do you think the writer, when writing thought he was writing of God the father...or God the Son?
If we consider only the OT, we would think it was God the Father. In the light of the NT see it is Christ.

This is harder to see....for the quote comes from the septuagint..which is a slap in the face to the KJVonly...but that is another subject

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deut 32
42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh--with the blood of the slain and the captives, from the long-haired heads of the enemy.' 43 "Praise his people, O you nations; for he avenges the blood of his servants, and takes vengeance on his adversaries, and makes expiation for the land of his people."

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Heb 1
7 Of the angels he says, "Who makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."
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this comes from psalms 104. do you think the writer, when writing thought he was writing of God the father...or God the Son?
If we consider only the OT, we would think it was God the Father. The writer of Heb shows why this is in the OT...and says it is Christ.
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psalms 104
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul! O LORD my God, thou art very great! Thou art clothed with honor and majesty, 2 who coverest thyself with light as with a garment, who hast stretched out the heavens like a tent, 3 who hast laid the beams of thy chambers on the waters, who makest the clouds thy chariot, who ridest on the wings of the wind, 4 who makest the winds thy messengers, fire and flame thy ministers. 5 Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.

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heb 1
8 But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.
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this comes from psalms. do you think the writer, when writing thought he was writing of God the father...or God the Son?
If we consider only the OT, we would think it was God the Father. In the light of the NT we know it is the son of God.
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psalms 45
4 In your majesty ride forth victoriously for the cause of truth and to defend the right; let your right hand teach you dread deeds! 5 Your arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; the peoples fall under you. 6 Your divine throne endures for ever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity; 7 you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows;
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On and on you can find this in the NT. God reviles more about Himself as we go though the Bible. The OT is full of pictures...but must be read though the eyes of the NT...then we understand.

So psalms 14 must be read in the light of the NT. Paul is RIGHT in the way he uses it. Paul tells us what it means.

Also look at psalms 22. do you think david knew he was writing the very words of Christ on the cross? I think david wrote psalms 22 as moved by the Holy Spirit..with no idea that it had a much larger meaning. That meaning came when Chrsit died. then we look back and say...hey wait...this was what david wrote about long ago...this was what was meant in psalms 22.

In Christ....James