How to tell whether you are chosen

Is giving it a shot the same as having a shot?

No he works too hard! Those that haven't done the work are the reapers!

It is the Lord that opens eyes not men.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]Good point JohnP.

I can change the heart of NNE.

I know in my life it always made my faith much stronger to come across a truth on my own rather then someone talk me into it. Salvation didn't come that way either. I was rasied in a home that went to church 3 times a week and never skipped a extra meetings. I had tons of Bibles around the house. I went to church camp, i worked at church camp. I heard and understood the bible all my life. I knew the facts...but i didn't know the LORD. Yet on my own was when God got a hold of my heart. Not in church, Not from my dad preaching to me. Those things helped. But those things can NEVER make you saved. At some point the light comes on and you see Christ as LORD. For years i thought i was saved, but I didn't understand the full picture. When it says LORD...it means i worship him. This is not a worship praise time. This means i get on the ground and lay at His feet and say...not my will, but your will be done Lord. This means that every thing i do... i stop feeding my self and look for ways to give to him.

I sin...YES. but my life is not on a track to feed self. My life is in Gods hands. God Gives, and God takes. I pray..for we are told to do so. When i pray God wants to hear from my LIPS that I love him and worship Him. He wants to hear from my lips, my needs. God wants all of our minds...thinking on Him at any moment we can. God gives us things in life to enjoy, but thanks be to God, KNOW THIS&gt;&gt;&gt; these things are not ours. They are Gods and he blessed us in a way so we can use them for a time. God gives and God takes. Enjoy the blessing while you have it.

This debate is around mans will. Some want to keep control and not give it to God, yet they turn and say we must serve him. Any time you keep a part of you, this is your will fighting God. God is God only because He is in control. God is love..YES..but if God can not control His love...then what good is that Love? Without him in control, Gods love may be here one moment and gone the next. But as we know, with God in control we KNOW His love is always there.

If one does not see it, who am I to force him to. This is not to say i should give up and write them off. I still need to share as God leads. Yet to force a point such as i just did maybe wrong. Gods Word speaks for itself. Most of the time this is my message to others.

"just read the Word...find out for yourself."

Yet i too have this sin nature that i carry. I want control myself. I want to SHOW...look this is what it means dude. This is my ugly will i let comtrol me again...thinking it is in the name of God. God wants us to share...and prasie God many shared with me. Yet no one can be talked into it.

In Christ...James

 

Hi James,

If one does not see it, who am I to force him to. (James)

And it really does no good to force it, God is in charge.

This is not to say i should give up and write them off. (James)

This is true but remember Who is in control. (It keeps the frustration level down.)

I still need to share as God leads. (James)

And when God leads seeds are sown, sometimes evidence of this is shown at a later time. (Let's think about it for a moment: when a seed does take root we do not see evidence of it right away.)

Yet i too have this sin nature that i carry. I want control myself. I want to SHOW...look this is what it means dude. This is my ugly will i let comtrol me again...thinking it is in the name of God. God wants us to share...and prasie God many shared with me. Yet no one can be talked into it. (James)

There is nothing wrong with sharing. Sharing is a good thing. But I always have to remind myself when sharing becomes frustrating, then I know that it is me doing the sharing, not God. Because it is my firm belief when God is in the matter, it does not frustrate.

Some want to keep control and not give it to God,... (James)

Yes, BUT the SAME God that is in CONTROL of me, IS in CONTROL of them. He DOES NOT need nor ask their permission. In short, man only thinks that man is in control.

Without him in control, Gods love may be here one moment and gone the next. But as we know, with God in control we KNOW His love is always there. (James)

Thank God He is in control.

 

Hello Johnp,

Sometimes it makes ya feel like having one.

True! True!

 

The question was not one of faith, it was one of understanding the principal of being born again! Nicodemus had faith, he had a lot of Faith, in God even. He did not accept what Jesus was telling him because he did not understand what Jesus was telling him. Nicodemus was equating Jesus words to natural birth and not spiritual rebirth. Therefore Jesus chided Nicodemus for being a teacher in the land, which meant being a religious teacher, and yet not understanding spiritual rebirth.

Faith? Nicodemus had lots of it. </font>[/QUOTE]I have to pin you down...how do we get this faith in God...2 pages of asking...then you post this

*************************
God himself says, "for lack of knowledge my people perish". We read in scripture that FAITH cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. What is heard? KNOWLEDGE! Where does knowledge of God come from? The word of God. So then one must conclude that Faith in God comes from the Knowledge one gets from the Word of God!
So, the answer to question 1) is YES! The logical conclusion is Little Knowledge=Little Faith! Much Knowledge=Much Faith. The beauty of God's plan is that Little Faith is sufficient unto salvation, because if one has faith even on the name of Jesus, Jesus says that person has everlasting life.

*************************
you said....faith in God..comes from knowing about God.
Hello???..is that what YOU said???

we were not talking about as you said...
"faith is just there for us to use."
...my thoughts when you ALWAYS bring this up....."whatever wes"...but lets push on to the point.

so i said....."faith in God"...and made sure i always add..."in God"...for you would once again..run down that pointless path.

i say...so faith in God only comes from hearing/knowing about God??

you say..YES

i say..are you sure????
you say...YES you are sure

ok now if this is so faith only comes from hearing/understand...AS YOU SAID
I DID NOT FORCE YOU TO SAY IT

...why is it that some do not have hearing/understanding at any time in their life???
hello??? can you hear me wes??

...and why is it that some do have this understanding placed in there hands?
HELLO?? are you with me so far????


and one guy is nic...he had NO understanding...even when Christ tried to teach him
still with me wes?????????

now what would this mean wes????
you said faith comes from knowing God.....and Christ said...Nis had no understanding...
think now...its not that hard
by your own words...what are you saying??


and then..all those verses...the bible saying over and over...no hearing/understanding in man

HELLO?????????????????

and you want to start all over with the ....faith is just there for us to use...nic had faith..you said above

yes faith wes...but we were talking about FAITH IN GOD!!!!

with no understanding of God....where is his faith in God wes??? YOU said it can not happen with out hearing/understanding

HELLO!!! maybe someone unpluged the speakers

wes..i tell you. you can not be this....(blank).

HEARING/understanding.....man comes to "faith in God"....yet some do not have understanding....so they never have faith in God. so those that do have understanding...did God play favor with these that do?

hey wes...are you with me??? </font>[/QUOTE]To the best of my knowledge, the source for knowledge of God is the book that the church recognizes as the Word of God, the bible. We do not as the Apostles did, have a flesh and bones God in the flesh person walking and talking with us. We have the recorded words of God the son, and the teachings of his Apostles, Prophets, Kings, etc. and that is it. Yes the Word of God is a gift of God to man, as was His Flesh and bones God-Man son. We do have the Holy Spirit of God, the comforter, the Paraclete (sic), but that Comforter being pure and Holy does in indwell the spirit of man that has not submitted itself to him and therefore made itself susceptable to the Spirit's work.

So in order to gain knowledge of God, man must first hear and understand that there is a God, then continue hearing, putting that knowledge in the brain for continued and later use. The spirit of man is, I BELIEVE, always searching for a way to return to relationship with God whether or not it knows enough about God. The spirit of man was not supposed to have been separated from God.

So, the more knowledge bits that man puts into his brain the more man's spirit has to work with in formulating belief in God unto faith in God. No one believes in what they don't have enough knowledge about to believe.

So, when sufficient knowledge exists in the brain of man to convince man's spirit, that spirit makes a choice to believe. Once that choice is made, and it is not a mack truck event, it is usually quite subtle. The spirit submits to believing and when that happens the HOLY SPIRIT can then work with the human spirit to bring about full conversion, and the human is born again, in new relationship with God. Then with proper nurishment, the human spirit becomes a disciple of Jesus Christ.

"For lack of knowledge my people perish" Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

All faith works the same way, it just matters what the knowledge is and where the knowledge comes from. Faith in God comes from the Word of God. Faith itself is not given to man by divine being to human being, it is given through a gift to mankind provided by the divine being, we know that gift as "His Holy Word, the bible".

Now why don't all get this faith? Quite simply we are a spiritual product of our spiritual environment. If our parents do not have a spirituality toward God, is it not likely that we will have it because we are not taught to have it. Parents, raise up your child in the way he should go and he will not soon depart from it.

Unless we are around persons of faith, we most likely will not become persons of faith.

Unless faith is a topic of discussion we will not understand that there is a need for faith. Unless we are confronted by our own lack of knowledge, we will not be willing to gain knowledge.

Knowledge breeds faith! God gives knowledge by which we come to have faith in HIM!

Faith is not given by one who has no faith to give, and God has not one single reason to have faith which is biblically defined as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. Only a limited God would have need of faith. But whom would God put his faith in? Is there a higher God than creator God? It is pure foolishness to think that faith is given to man by God!

 

Who says some do not have understanding? Isn't it possible that some CHOOSE not to understand? The gospel message is NOT a difficult thing to grasp, unless you are brainwashed into believing a religion or theological system that teaches a confusing gospel and a confusing position on salvation. If the message of Jesus Christ is told to two people and one chooses not to believe it, it is not necessarily not understanding, and it DEFINATELY NOT God playing favorites.

btw...from this thread...some of you guys sound like a bunch of pharisees! Isn't gossip a sin here now, johnp, jarthur? Has it ever come to you that maybe Wes CHOOSES not to understand your theology, because he doesn't agree?

 

I understood perfectly, you were wrong then, you are wrong now!

 

Who says some do not have understanding? Isn't it possible that some CHOOSE not to understand? The gospel message is NOT a difficult thing to grasp, unless you are brainwashed into believing a religion or theological system that teaches a confusing gospel and a confusing position on salvation. If the message of Jesus Christ is told to two people and one chooses not to believe it, it is not necessarily not understanding, and it DEFINATELY NOT God playing favorites.

btw...from this thread...some of you guys sound like a bunch of pharisees! Isn't gossip a sin here now, johnp, jarthur? Has it ever come to you that maybe Wes CHOOSES not to understand your theology, because he doesn't agree? </font>[/QUOTE]hey..i am wrong for forcing. I will try to back down.

you asked...who said some do not have understanding

well...wes did. it took 3 pages to pull it out of him.
but i agree....i have always said this.

So i'l cut back my words...and let the Bible talk

Man is spiritually dead.
Our Lord spoke the religious leaders and asked this rhetorically question.

43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.


next look at john 14:16

And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.


next...back to romans 8: 7-8

For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


next 1 cor. 2:14

14 The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

also look at romans 3 on this

OK. We have just seen that the lost do not hear the word, nor receive the Holy Spirit, nor submit to Gods law, and does not understand biblical teaching, nor can he cease from sinning.

the unsaved has no understanding.

that is why nic could not understand...yet Christ ...the best teacher"....was his teacher.

bind he was.

In Chrsit....James

 

I'm sorry, I may have missed something...where does it say the lost do not hear?

 

Ya know here now, I run into people like you daily, people who fail to understand. Do you see what I said there, "People who fail to understand". The word of God does not give understanding, the word of God gives knowledge, people do the understanding of what is contained in the word of God. Why don't you understand that?

People hear, that is, people gain knowledge from the word of God, and it is from that HEARING that they gain understanding and from that understanding faith is produced. Those who gain no faith, have failed to understand what they've heard.

So why have some failed while others have not? We are the product of our environement. If our environment is opposed to spiritual things, then we ourselves are opposed to spiritual things. If our parents never open the bible, more than likely we will never open the bible. Yes there are exceptions, but generally, what I've said holds true, and that is why whole nations are opposed to things of the spirit. If that were not true, the whole world would be Christian!

Wake up and smell the coffee!

 

Wes,

Tell Paul he had a choice.

Tell Paul that his awakening was not a mack truck event.

 

john 8

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God

 

Wes,

Just because God possesses something does not mean that He uses it for His own personal need.

He is the Providor.

He doesn't need Salvation but he gives it.

He is the Providor.

 

Webdog,

Your point?

 

Wes,

So then faith cometh by hearing

(notice the next part Wes)

AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.

 

Just because God possesses something does not mean that He uses it for His own personal need.

He is the Providor.

He doesn't need Salvation but he gives it.

He is the Providor. </font>[/QUOTE]Why do you keep repeating this tripe?

God does not give salvation! God saves! To us that fact, that we get saved, and that He does so freely for us, means to us that we receive a gift from God, when in reality our salvation is PERFORMED BY GOD! He does it! We benefit by it.

We received nothing except the end result of having BEEN SAVED!

God does not need salvation!
God has no use for FAITH!

God saves us because WE HAVE faith in HIM!

God did not give us salvation!
God did not give us faith!

 

So then faith cometh by hearing

(notice the next part Wes)

AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD. </font>[/QUOTE]Too bad you did not get any of that "hearing", because if you did, you would not have this failure to understand!

 

Tell Paul he had a choice.

Tell Paul that his awakening was not a mack truck event. </font>[/QUOTE]Paul was Already a devout believer in God! Trained by the greatest religious minds of the time. He was out and about killing off that which the established religious community thought was a false religion, "a fungus among us". Paul was "the exterminator" sent out "officially" to rid the world of that fungus called Christianity. He did not understand, like Nicodemus did not understand.

Jesus simply straightened his young tushy out and set him on the right path!

 

Your point? </font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't be so eager to belittle someone publicly.

 

john 8

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God </font>[/QUOTE]"cannot hear" means more along the lines of "cannot persuade yourselves to hear" in the same manner the jews could not hear Stephen in Acts 7:57 or Paul in Acts 23:22. They stopped themselves from hearing, the ability to hear was not removed from God as you suggest.

 

Webdog,

Oh no, then what is this?

By the way, being refered to as a Pharisee is not a good thing.


Before you go cleaning someone elses yard make sure your own is clean.
Be slow to judge.