Plain Old Bill
New Member
Does God come to us in dreams. I hope so. My salvation came about as the result of a dream.
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How To Win Souls
- Thread starter Seeker Of Truth
- Start date
I think a lot of frustration and conflict comes up, in regard to many issues, when folks try to determine the "best" way to do things.
Personally, we only need to determine how God wants to use us and our gifts.
Just as Christ healed people in many ways, God uses many diverse methods to bring men to Christ.
Door to door, tracts, books, mass evangelism, family relationships, inviting friends to church, and on and on. All these are valid and are used by God.
According to surveys, personal relationships yield the most fruit. But that doesn't mean it is the "best" way. But it seems to be the method that God calls most to use.
I have heard preachers say that 95% of Christians never share their faith. I don't know how this could be. If 90% of people come to Christ through family or friendships, then most Christians must be sharing in some way.
Perhaps 95% have not knocked on doors (I haven't.) Perhaps they have not stepped through the Romans Road with someone (I have only few times.) But I think at least 95% of Christians take their kids to church and invite family and friends to church. And that is sharing Christ in my book. (Assuming, since we are Baptists, that your preacher presents the gospel every week.)
Personally, we only need to determine how God wants to use us and our gifts.
Just as Christ healed people in many ways, God uses many diverse methods to bring men to Christ.
Door to door, tracts, books, mass evangelism, family relationships, inviting friends to church, and on and on. All these are valid and are used by God.
According to surveys, personal relationships yield the most fruit. But that doesn't mean it is the "best" way. But it seems to be the method that God calls most to use.
I have heard preachers say that 95% of Christians never share their faith. I don't know how this could be. If 90% of people come to Christ through family or friendships, then most Christians must be sharing in some way.
Perhaps 95% have not knocked on doors (I haven't.) Perhaps they have not stepped through the Romans Road with someone (I have only few times.) But I think at least 95% of Christians take their kids to church and invite family and friends to church. And that is sharing Christ in my book. (Assuming, since we are Baptists, that your preacher presents the gospel every week.)
arkie pastor
New Member
I still believe there is no set patern for witnessing....altough I read a lot of well written books by well meaning men...giving a lot of good advise.....I have found that their sugestions are by no means a "fit all" answer to witnessing.
I sorta go by this......I try to have my heart in tune with God, have my spiritual eyes open to any doors He opens for me to witness, And pray to Him to give me the proper words to speak,so the Holy Spirit can accomplish His part.
ps. seeker of truth...I believe God uses numerous things to speak to us,yes even dreams. God has spoken to me (not saying that I have heard a great voice from heaven thing) numerous times when I've been out in my woods by myself just a walking and meditating, I have felt God's Spirit commucating with my spirit.
I sorta go by this......I try to have my heart in tune with God, have my spiritual eyes open to any doors He opens for me to witness, And pray to Him to give me the proper words to speak,so the Holy Spirit can accomplish His part.
ps. seeker of truth...I believe God uses numerous things to speak to us,yes even dreams. God has spoken to me (not saying that I have heard a great voice from heaven thing) numerous times when I've been out in my woods by myself just a walking and meditating, I have felt God's Spirit commucating with my spirit.
Bob Dudley
New Member
Hi JohnB,
I think I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I do think you might have a little bit of the “comparing apples and oranges.” I think when they quote that 95% of Christians have never shared their faith (i.e., led any one to Christ) they mean this in the same way Paul says “…for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” (1 Cor 4:15b) In other words, they “led them through the sinner’s prayer” or something equivalent.
I think we do need all the activity you mentioned – people bringing others to church, passing out tracts. I think that is critical and we should encourage it whenever possible. But (of course there’s a “but”) I think we need to train Christians to actually witness. I mean have them ask someone if they are 100% sure about eternity and where they will go. I mean go through the Romans’ Road or something similar. I mean ask someone if they would like to ask Jesus to be their Savior and trust in Him alone to get them to heaven, then show them how to do it.
Quick personal testimony: For 30 years of my Christian life I would pretty much invite people to church when ever it “felt right” and that was about it. Then, about 4 years ago I surrendered my life to God. The first thing I felt led to do was to tell others about Him. Boy that was a bust. Doors were closed in my face, people were rude and, all around, it was a pretty frustrating experience. I then sought training and discipling in this area. I found someone that knew how to talk to people about Christ. I learned a “plan,” if you will. I learned my responsibility, God’s responsibility and the bible’s responsibility.
I learned that we are a small (yet important) part of the formula. Someone showed me that we are to tell the gospel (and, I say this as gently as possible, not just invite people to church) (Matt 28:19), that Jesus is with us when we share (Matt 28:20), the Holy Spirit is with us when we share (Acts 1:8), the Holy Spirit is convicting the hearts of the person we are talking to when we share (John 16:8), and the Word of God is powerful and active when we share (Rom 10:17). Since then I have seen untold hundreds accept Christ.
I now go around training individual Christians and churches how to share the gospel plainly and effectively. It is amazing how many Christians I’ve met that have never led someone to the Lord. And when they have seen their first fruit (their first one begotten through the gospel) they wonder why they never did it before – it is one of the biggest blessings, I think, a person can get between salvation and eternity.
Here’s the crux of the matter: I think the problem is one of leadership. I think Christian leaders are teaching their people to do everything in the world except how to produce fruit – other Christians. It’s important to feed and clothe the poor and needy. It’s important to show compassion to the down and out. It’s important to try to heal the sick. But if we just stop there, it’s like inviting someone to the banquet and not letting them eat. We need to show our disciples how to take that next step. It’s a lot easier than someone might think to lead someone to Christ - if they are just shown how.
D L Moody committed to talking to at least one person every day about eternity (i.e., going through the entire plan of salvation and inviting them to accept Christ). If we could just go through the gospel with one person every week we could turn this world on fire for God. Most evangelists will tell you that it is the one-on-one where they get the most fruit – not the preaching from the pulpit.
OK, off my soap box. I just feel so passionate about this subject and I think we are all doing God and the body of Christ a great disservice in this most important area.
I think I pretty much agree with what you are saying. I do think you might have a little bit of the “comparing apples and oranges.” I think when they quote that 95% of Christians have never shared their faith (i.e., led any one to Christ) they mean this in the same way Paul says “…for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” (1 Cor 4:15b) In other words, they “led them through the sinner’s prayer” or something equivalent.
I think we do need all the activity you mentioned – people bringing others to church, passing out tracts. I think that is critical and we should encourage it whenever possible. But (of course there’s a “but”) I think we need to train Christians to actually witness. I mean have them ask someone if they are 100% sure about eternity and where they will go. I mean go through the Romans’ Road or something similar. I mean ask someone if they would like to ask Jesus to be their Savior and trust in Him alone to get them to heaven, then show them how to do it.
Quick personal testimony: For 30 years of my Christian life I would pretty much invite people to church when ever it “felt right” and that was about it. Then, about 4 years ago I surrendered my life to God. The first thing I felt led to do was to tell others about Him. Boy that was a bust. Doors were closed in my face, people were rude and, all around, it was a pretty frustrating experience. I then sought training and discipling in this area. I found someone that knew how to talk to people about Christ. I learned a “plan,” if you will. I learned my responsibility, God’s responsibility and the bible’s responsibility.
I learned that we are a small (yet important) part of the formula. Someone showed me that we are to tell the gospel (and, I say this as gently as possible, not just invite people to church) (Matt 28:19), that Jesus is with us when we share (Matt 28:20), the Holy Spirit is with us when we share (Acts 1:8), the Holy Spirit is convicting the hearts of the person we are talking to when we share (John 16:8), and the Word of God is powerful and active when we share (Rom 10:17). Since then I have seen untold hundreds accept Christ.
I now go around training individual Christians and churches how to share the gospel plainly and effectively. It is amazing how many Christians I’ve met that have never led someone to the Lord. And when they have seen their first fruit (their first one begotten through the gospel) they wonder why they never did it before – it is one of the biggest blessings, I think, a person can get between salvation and eternity.
Here’s the crux of the matter: I think the problem is one of leadership. I think Christian leaders are teaching their people to do everything in the world except how to produce fruit – other Christians. It’s important to feed and clothe the poor and needy. It’s important to show compassion to the down and out. It’s important to try to heal the sick. But if we just stop there, it’s like inviting someone to the banquet and not letting them eat. We need to show our disciples how to take that next step. It’s a lot easier than someone might think to lead someone to Christ - if they are just shown how.
D L Moody committed to talking to at least one person every day about eternity (i.e., going through the entire plan of salvation and inviting them to accept Christ). If we could just go through the gospel with one person every week we could turn this world on fire for God. Most evangelists will tell you that it is the one-on-one where they get the most fruit – not the preaching from the pulpit.
OK, off my soap box. I just feel so passionate about this subject and I think we are all doing God and the body of Christ a great disservice in this most important area.
Well said, Bob!
Anyone who wants to win folk to Christ must get used to rejection. Christ suffered "outside the camp," and so will we. My father taught me a wonderful truth one time when I was out "door-knocking" with him and we had been rejected. "John," he said, "They didn't reject us, they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ!"
Anyone who wants to win folk to Christ must get used to rejection. Christ suffered "outside the camp," and so will we. My father taught me a wonderful truth one time when I was out "door-knocking" with him and we had been rejected. "John," he said, "They didn't reject us, they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ!"
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I think this is a huge point. Too many times people stop at just inviting folks to church. That is a good thing, but it is not the best thing. We need to be telling them the Gospel of Jesus Christ as we invite them to church.
I too appreciate what Bob Dudley posted. It states our philosophy very well.
Recently I really started applying the idea of doing all things by faith....Id never thought that that could apply to soulwinning. I was even getting sort of scared that I'd mess up.....partly because of all the "debate" around here about what consitutes "easy-believism" and the sinner's prayer, and "how we really know someone else is saved or not."
But we have to have faith that the Holy Spirit really will be there with us when we go out in order to talk to people about Christ. We have to exercise faith that He will give us the right words to use, and we have to have faith that His Word will not return void. Its when we aren't exercising our faith in Christ that we get desparate and try to rush things, or else become too shy to even speak up.
Recently I really started applying the idea of doing all things by faith....Id never thought that that could apply to soulwinning. I was even getting sort of scared that I'd mess up.....partly because of all the "debate" around here about what consitutes "easy-believism" and the sinner's prayer, and "how we really know someone else is saved or not."
But we have to have faith that the Holy Spirit really will be there with us when we go out in order to talk to people about Christ. We have to exercise faith that He will give us the right words to use, and we have to have faith that His Word will not return void. Its when we aren't exercising our faith in Christ that we get desparate and try to rush things, or else become too shy to even speak up.
bapmom; you are so right, once years ago in Phoenix, Arizona three of us were going door-to-door in an attempt to win people to the Lord. A young man named Rick was at the door witnessing to the occupant, a man who appeared to be very wealthy. He had Home,Cars and in house business. He was telling my friend Rick no he was not interested when I suddenly was moved by the Holy Spirit to say, sir, if the gospel of Jesus Christ is for you there should be a still small voice inside of you saying, you should do this, you should do this. The man straightened up, raised his voice as I was about 20 or 30 feet from him and said, yes I hear that still small voice. Rick then lead him in a sinners prayer and things got happy at that house.
Well said, JohnB, that God uses many, many ways to save souls. We should never look down on any other believer who doesn't use our own "approved" plan to get the Gospel out.
On relationships, they are incredibly important here in Confucian Asia. Confucianism is based on human relationships. You must build a relationship to effectively share the Gospel, even though the relationship may be very new when you witness. Relationships are a bridge over which to travel with the Gospel.
Having said that, there is still the "Go" in the Gospel. At some point in the relationship we must share Christ or they will remain unsaved. I spent so long trying to develop a friendship with a teen in our neighborhood who likes basketball and would practice with our hoop that I never shared Christ with him. Now I haven't seen him for a year--they get so busy in school.
Thanks JOJ,
In my comments, I did not mean to imply a form of relationship evangelism where we never get a person under the gospel. We always need to be careful about that. People need to hear the Word of the gospel, not just our lifestyle, or "churchstyle."
My point was that getting a friend or family member to church service or an evangelistic meeting where the preacher clearly presents the gospel is just as valid a form of sharing as us sharing the Roman Road personally. That's what Billy Graham's Operation Andrew is all about. "Come and see."
Of course, this is only valid if the gospel is presented. Not every church or denomination does this. Inviting someone to a Unitarian church is probably not going to get anyone anywhere.
Fortunately, at my church, the gospel and invitation is presented clearly each and every Sunday without fail.
In fact, I just finished reading a book of 50 or so testimonies. The vast majority were invitation related. Folks invited by family and friends to a place where they heard the gospel from a preacher/evangelist. Only a few conversions were kitchen table discussions.
Again, and let me emphasize this, I am not trying to make this a best, better, worse comparison. But I think that folks gifted in one on one evangelism tend to despise the widow's mite of the "come and see" disciples. I believe that to tell people that 95% of Christians don't share their faith is not only erroneous, it is a form of guilt manipulation.
In my comments, I did not mean to imply a form of relationship evangelism where we never get a person under the gospel. We always need to be careful about that. People need to hear the Word of the gospel, not just our lifestyle, or "churchstyle."
My point was that getting a friend or family member to church service or an evangelistic meeting where the preacher clearly presents the gospel is just as valid a form of sharing as us sharing the Roman Road personally. That's what Billy Graham's Operation Andrew is all about. "Come and see."
Of course, this is only valid if the gospel is presented. Not every church or denomination does this. Inviting someone to a Unitarian church is probably not going to get anyone anywhere.
Fortunately, at my church, the gospel and invitation is presented clearly each and every Sunday without fail.
In fact, I just finished reading a book of 50 or so testimonies. The vast majority were invitation related. Folks invited by family and friends to a place where they heard the gospel from a preacher/evangelist. Only a few conversions were kitchen table discussions.
Again, and let me emphasize this, I am not trying to make this a best, better, worse comparison. But I think that folks gifted in one on one evangelism tend to despise the widow's mite of the "come and see" disciples. I believe that to tell people that 95% of Christians don't share their faith is not only erroneous, it is a form of guilt manipulation.
Bob Dudley
New Member
Hi JohnB,
I hope you didn't get the impression I was picking on you. If so, my humblest apologies. I really do think we need to build relationships and do whatever we can to get people in church to hear the gospel. But I do want to address your last paragraph. I mean, what would be the point of the BB if we just agreed on everything? How boring.
First, I don’t think there really is a “gift of one-on-one evangelism” – although before someone taught me how to present the gospel I thought it was a gift that I didn’t have. I think that, rather than a gift, it is a command. But I think the reason so many Christians don’t do it is not from lack of enthusiasm to see people saved but from lack of training by our leadership. Honestly it is not that hard to witness to someone and tell them the gospel – IF you are trained.
Second, I would be furious if I ever saw anyone despise a brother or sister for doing whatever they can to get someone to the gospel. I would be just as furious if someone tried to guilt a brother or sister into witnessing. It's a training/leadership problem not a motivation problem. Hang out with me for a day of witnessing and you’ll be doing it for the high you get from all the miracles you’ll see and the closeness to God that you will feel and you’d never have to be “guilted”.
I hope you didn't get the impression I was picking on you. If so, my humblest apologies. I really do think we need to build relationships and do whatever we can to get people in church to hear the gospel. But I do want to address your last paragraph. I mean, what would be the point of the BB if we just agreed on everything? How boring.
There are two things I think I might have a different take on.
First, I don’t think there really is a “gift of one-on-one evangelism” – although before someone taught me how to present the gospel I thought it was a gift that I didn’t have. I think that, rather than a gift, it is a command. But I think the reason so many Christians don’t do it is not from lack of enthusiasm to see people saved but from lack of training by our leadership. Honestly it is not that hard to witness to someone and tell them the gospel – IF you are trained.
Second, I would be furious if I ever saw anyone despise a brother or sister for doing whatever they can to get someone to the gospel. I would be just as furious if someone tried to guilt a brother or sister into witnessing. It's a training/leadership problem not a motivation problem. Hang out with me for a day of witnessing and you’ll be doing it for the high you get from all the miracles you’ll see and the closeness to God that you will feel and you’d never have to be “guilted”.
Our church is not "open" to anyone. It is a private meeting of [duh] the church!! Believers are edified and trained and share and minister. Exciting place.
So no one can shirk the biblical mandate (Acts 1:8) to be a witness and just blow it off by inviting someone to church. Cop out.
But the 164 hours of the week is wide open to witnessing for our Lord. EVERY member is trained to share the Gospel message. We live and speak the Gospel to all around, all the time.
BTW, I've never won a soul in my nearly 49 years of being a believer. The Holy Spirit has won them all and I will not put Him down by claiming that "I" won them.
So no one can shirk the biblical mandate (Acts 1:8) to be a witness and just blow it off by inviting someone to church. Cop out.
But the 164 hours of the week is wide open to witnessing for our Lord. EVERY member is trained to share the Gospel message. We live and speak the Gospel to all around, all the time.
BTW, I've never won a soul in my nearly 49 years of being a believer. The Holy Spirit has won them all and I will not put Him down by claiming that "I" won them.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Doc, yer years must pass by quicker than ours..
We have 168 hours in our week. lol
Oh, wait... I figured out where the other 4 hours went.... ya gotta sleep sometime.
Psalm 127:2b
We have 168 hours in our week. lol
Oh, wait... I figured out where the other 4 hours went.... ya gotta sleep sometime.
Psalm 127:2b
JohnB, I certainly agree with you that inviting folks to hear the Gospel is a very valid "Andrew" type method and that we should never despise any method of getting the Gospel out. I like any method at all better than no method! And I like your take on relationships.
I'll have to say I agree with Bob Dudley that there is no gift per se of personal evangelism, and that it is a command rather than a gift. There is a spiritual gift of the evangelist, but not one of evangelism. From your posts I kind of think you'll agree here.
Dr. Bob, I agree completely that all believers are to witness, although the Great Commission of Acts 1:8 with its strategy for world evangelism was specifically given to the apostles (look at the context).
However, I am extremely puzzled by this. Do you actually mean that lost folks are not allowed in your services?
Paul specifically talked about lost people coming into the church service and being convicted by all in 1 Cor. 14:24--"But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all."
Do I have to write this in all caps to get my point across?
GETTING PEOPLE INTO A CHURCH SERVICE WHERE THEY HEAR THE GOSPEL IS, REPEAT IS, A FULFILMENT OF THE MADATE TO EVANGELISE. IT IS EVANGELISM!!
Am I saying it's the only way - NO!
Am I saying it's the way you have to do it? - NO!
Am I saying it's the "best" way? - NO!
(However, historically, it seems to me to be the way most people get introduced to Jesus.)
Is it a cop out! - NO NO NO
Dr Bob, I am sure that you, as a Calvinist, certainly recognise the complete sovereignty of God in salvation.
Some sow, some water and some reap. Let one not despise the other.
Bob Dudley
New Member
I’m sorry JohnB but I just have to disagree with you on this one, no matter how loud you shout it, getting people to church is not what the Great Commission is about. If a Christian doesn’t know anything but inviting people to church then, by all means, invite away – God will richly bless that effort. But, God intents each and every child of His to bring forth their own fruit.
I think the passage you are referencing (“Some sow, some water and some reap.”) really says: “I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.” (1 Cor 3:6) If I got the wrong reference, then I apologize. Keep in mind the person saying he planted is Paul, himself. He led multitudes to a saving knowledge of Christ. What he is trying to do in this passage is try to get rid of clique groups in Corinth.
The Great Commission calls ALL Christians to personal one-on-one evangelism (Matt 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16; Luke 24:46-49; John 20:21; Acts 1:8). We SHOULD invite people to church – I probably invite an average of 5-10 people per week to go to church. That is a good thing to do. But it is not what the Great Commission is talking about.
Brother, who ever told you that just inviting people to church is good enough, really sold you a bill of goods and has robbed you of many blessings.
I would entreat you to read the book of Acts. The average Christian led people to Christ.
One last motivator that I’d like to give. It’s a negative motivator but it sure motivated Paul. Paul says in Acts:
I think he was referring to:
I think whoever told you that you personally did not need to lead people to Christ was in direct opposition to our standing orders as watchmen. And I think that person is going to have a lot to answer for as a leader when he stands before Christ in the judgment.
Please, I beg you, reconsider where you stand on this issue. You are missing out on so many blessings.
Bob,
I apologise to you, and everyone else, for my poor communication skills.
I think I could write 50 more posts, and every one would be misunderstood as they have been thus far.
So, I will drop this issue and settle for being misunderstood.
God bless you, and Dr. Bob and JOJ in the fields God has called you to work in.
At the risk of being facetious, let me invite you to fellowship with my church family if you are ever in El Paso.
I apologise to you, and everyone else, for my poor communication skills.
I think I could write 50 more posts, and every one would be misunderstood as they have been thus far.
So, I will drop this issue and settle for being misunderstood.
God bless you, and Dr. Bob and JOJ in the fields God has called you to work in.
At the risk of being facetious, let me invite you to fellowship with my church family if you are ever in El Paso.
Bob Dudley
New Member
OK, if I am ever in El Paso I'll drop by an buy you lunch.
Plain Old Bill
New Member
Everybody knows it is not man who wins or saves the soul.I think we are just dealing with semantics.
It is the Hily Ghost who does the convicting and Jesus Christ our Lord who does the saving,but we are to make the introduction that is clear in scripture and not optional.
Most people do not witness because they are not taught how to by thier pastor,the deacons,or the Sunday school teachers in the church they attend.They need to find a new church or thier church needs to get right.
I have passed out tracts for years and don't know of a single person who was saved by them.It's not my job to know, it's my job to make the available.Probably the best"feeling" I ever recieved from passing out those tracts came from a Greyhound bus driver.I used to commute between Seattle and Tacoma on the Greyhound bus daily to go to work.The morning run originated in Vancouver B.C. and ended up in Los Angeles California. After about two years of passing out about 50 tracts a day (25 or so in each direction) one of the clean- up crew saw me putting the tracts in the seats and told me to stop. Well the Driver told him to mind his own business and turned to me and told me to keep putting the tracts on the seats.Those little Gospel tracts traveled from Vancouver B.C. to L.A. everyday both ways.I put them on benches,in restrooms,phone booths,or any place I can.I have 3,000 more to pass out right now.
I also enjoy Tuesday night visitation and Saturday door knocking and visitation.It brings tears of joy to my eyes everytime I can witness someone comming to know my Lord and Savior.
I use the Romans Road and tell them about repentence.I also do my best to get them into church where they can get into a new beginners class and learn the fundamentals of discipleship.
I am not saying any of this to brag.This is what I was taught in a fundamental "Soul Winning Church".These are my happiest times.When God has given me such a great and wonderful gift how can I not share it.
We get all excited when we get a good deal on a purchase we make and tell everybody we know about it.Why would'nt we tell people about the best gift of all?
It is the Hily Ghost who does the convicting and Jesus Christ our Lord who does the saving,but we are to make the introduction that is clear in scripture and not optional.
Most people do not witness because they are not taught how to by thier pastor,the deacons,or the Sunday school teachers in the church they attend.They need to find a new church or thier church needs to get right.
I have passed out tracts for years and don't know of a single person who was saved by them.It's not my job to know, it's my job to make the available.Probably the best"feeling" I ever recieved from passing out those tracts came from a Greyhound bus driver.I used to commute between Seattle and Tacoma on the Greyhound bus daily to go to work.The morning run originated in Vancouver B.C. and ended up in Los Angeles California. After about two years of passing out about 50 tracts a day (25 or so in each direction) one of the clean- up crew saw me putting the tracts in the seats and told me to stop. Well the Driver told him to mind his own business and turned to me and told me to keep putting the tracts on the seats.Those little Gospel tracts traveled from Vancouver B.C. to L.A. everyday both ways.I put them on benches,in restrooms,phone booths,or any place I can.I have 3,000 more to pass out right now.
I also enjoy Tuesday night visitation and Saturday door knocking and visitation.It brings tears of joy to my eyes everytime I can witness someone comming to know my Lord and Savior.
I use the Romans Road and tell them about repentence.I also do my best to get them into church where they can get into a new beginners class and learn the fundamentals of discipleship.
I am not saying any of this to brag.This is what I was taught in a fundamental "Soul Winning Church".These are my happiest times.When God has given me such a great and wonderful gift how can I not share it.
We get all excited when we get a good deal on a purchase we make and tell everybody we know about it.Why would'nt we tell people about the best gift of all?