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How To Win Souls
- Thread starter Seeker Of Truth
- Start date
Inviting people to church is NOT witnessing. It is inviting people to attend something. Maybe, maybe not the Gospel will be presented. It will depend on the church, the Sunday, the sermon and even if the recipient is "hearing".
Telling people about the Law/Gospel IS witnessing.
Telling people about the Law/Gospel IS witnessing.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Doc, if I invite someone to church, could it not be a form of witnessing to the effect that it is telling that person that you are a member of the body of Christ?
Doc, inviting someone to church is a form of witnessing when you are sincere and want them to hear the Gospel--and you know that your pastor preaches the Gospel. You shouldn't "clump" everyone who invites people to church into "one" category, because there are some who invite people to church just to invite people to church. There are also those who are sincere in their invitation and have been witnessing to these people and want them to hear the Gospel preached in church.
Seeker -
I have been without a computer for a while due to illness and a major house move, and this is already beyond the 3 pages in which a late comer like myself could probably be 100% relevant in his posts, so first I'd like to apologize for any irrelevancy and second I want you to know I am not being picky and/or sarcastic.
First question: where in the Bible does it say, definitely, that we are to 'win' souls ? I figure we can go ask that of Ray Comfort and all these public figure teachers who, I daresay, capitalize on this theology and write their little books and promote their fancy radio and TV programs and make money.
The last time I read my Bible, it was still Jesus Christ who was hung on that cross, died, and was resurrected by God, in order that He may reconcile to God all that the Father gave Him from eternity past to eternity future, including those that were His in His time on earth, and I believe in my heart (don't you) that He did a good job, and that according to His undoubtable statement, He being the God of all truth, He lost no one, save the son of perdition.
The last time I looked at my Bible it still said that Jesus Christ was the One who entered the Holiest place, bearing his own blood for the eternal redemption of us all .
The last time I looked and read my Bible it still said nothing about church members going 'out there' to 'get people saved'. It did say a lot about church members edifying each other, exhorting each other, comforting each other, preferring one another, studying doctrines together, respecting those who rule over them.
As a matter of fact, just an hour ago, I read my Bible and I noticed that in every exhortation that Paul wrote down, his point was to live a life one professes. Did one steal ? Steal no longer. Was one called a slave ? Stay a slave, but be a good slave. Was one an adulterer ? then turn away from adultery. Pau, Peter, John, and the Holy Spirit never asked 'how many souls have you won today' ?
I gotta go. The world beckons, and believers still have to work, even those in the ministry, in order to pay bills and put food on the table, by the grace of God.
I seriously doubt that a single soul-winner on the Baptist Board would claim that he did the work instead of Christ. This old saw is also an old straw man.
The truth is, we are most certainly told to win souls in the Bible. In the Great Commission in Matthew 28 we are told to "make disciples" ("teach" in the KJV). It is clear that this means to do personal evangelism until the prospect becomes a Christian (the dreaded "soul-winning") because:
(1) The common usage of the word "disciple" in the NT is of a synonym to "believer," as in the fact that the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch (Acts 11:26).
(2) The "make disciples" phrase comes before "baptizing," meaning that "make disciples" does not mean "to disciple" (in the sense of "help to mature as a Christian") in the common usage of that word in modern times. If a person is not baptized yet, they are usually not a mature Christian but a baby Christian.
(3) After we are told to baptize the believer, then we are told to teach them the teachings of Christ, what is commonly and mistakenly called "discipling" nowadays. (I much prefer the term "followup.")
The truth is, we are most certainly told to win souls in the Bible. In the Great Commission in Matthew 28 we are told to "make disciples" ("teach" in the KJV). It is clear that this means to do personal evangelism until the prospect becomes a Christian (the dreaded "soul-winning") because:
(1) The common usage of the word "disciple" in the NT is of a synonym to "believer," as in the fact that the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch (Acts 11:26).
(2) The "make disciples" phrase comes before "baptizing," meaning that "make disciples" does not mean "to disciple" (in the sense of "help to mature as a Christian") in the common usage of that word in modern times. If a person is not baptized yet, they are usually not a mature Christian but a baby Christian.
(3) After we are told to baptize the believer, then we are told to teach them the teachings of Christ, what is commonly and mistakenly called "discipling" nowadays. (I much prefer the term "followup.")
Seeker Of Truth
New Member
I agree that it is Christ that win souls but we are his instruments in sharing the gospel to others. The purpose of the church is to edify by teaching the Word and to evangelize.
Can an animal be a excellent evangelistic tool? Ray Comfort seems to think so. On page 234 of his book he writes:
"A friend who works as an animal control officer, came by my home for a visit. As we were talking, he said he had an animal in the back of his truck that would be an excellent tool for me... I hope it would be a MONKEY, something I have wanted for years... a MONKEY would have so much potential for open-air preaching. I would dress him in blue shorts with suspenders, a red shirt, white socks and sneakers. I would train him to give out tracts to the crowd, springboarding off him into Darwin's theory-tale. I would name the chimp "Link". I could say that I finally found what evolution called the "missing link."
Ray Comfort's statement above is ridiculous, I think he went too far on this one. Please don't try this method at home.
Can an animal be a excellent evangelistic tool? Ray Comfort seems to think so. On page 234 of his book he writes:
"A friend who works as an animal control officer, came by my home for a visit. As we were talking, he said he had an animal in the back of his truck that would be an excellent tool for me... I hope it would be a MONKEY, something I have wanted for years... a MONKEY would have so much potential for open-air preaching. I would dress him in blue shorts with suspenders, a red shirt, white socks and sneakers. I would train him to give out tracts to the crowd, springboarding off him into Darwin's theory-tale. I would name the chimp "Link". I could say that I finally found what evolution called the "missing link."
Ray Comfort's statement above is ridiculous, I think he went too far on this one. Please don't try this method at home.
Seeker Of Truth
New Member
Ray Comfort claims to cast out demons. On page 264-265 of his book "How To Win Souls" he writes:
"Some years ago, two teenage girls approached me to see if they could talk to me about the demonic realm. They were both non-Christians and didn't know how to express their concern. I arranged to speak with them the following day. To cut a long story short one of the girls manifested demons on the floor on my office. After she regained consciousness from a time of exocising prayer,and I counseled her to commit her life to Christ and also make a complete break of all occult practices, which included getting rid of a small trinket which she wore around her neck."
"Two weeks later, I received a phone call from her friend to say that she was still having blackouts. Once again all sorts of demonic manifestations came through this quiet young girl as she laid on my office floor in a blacked-out state. As she lays on the floor, I noticed she was gripping something around her neck so tightly that all the blood had drained out of her hand. i pried back the fingers of her now white hand to find the trinket I had told her to get rid of. it looked like "Tinkerbell" from Peter Pan, and was made of silver. I felt it was probably a goddess of fertility, or something similar. I took it from her hand, walked to the other side of my office and hit it with a hammer. She remained blacked-out in the far corner of the room. Two of my friends were praying for her. I had my back to her, and yet every time I hit that trinket with the hammer, demons in her creamed. I must have hit it five or six times and each time I hit it, they screamed. It was something out of a horror movie."
"After I had spoken at a young people's camp, a seventeen year-old asked for counsel. His complaint was that he had an inferiority complex. as I quietly prayed for him he blacked out, slumped onto the floor, with his back arched, and screamed as demons began to manifest. Using the authority of the name of Jesus I commanded the spirits to tell me the area of stronghold in the young man's life. The word "Bitterness!" came from the youth's mouth."
Ray Comfort sounds to me like a charismatic, recall that he also recommended some charismatic organizations earlier in his book. Can Christians today cast demons? I thought these sign gifts were done away with the completion of the New Testament? Charismatics believes that Christians can be demon possess and that they can cast out demons. Only God can perform miracles today, but Christians today don't have the gift of miracles today.
"Some years ago, two teenage girls approached me to see if they could talk to me about the demonic realm. They were both non-Christians and didn't know how to express their concern. I arranged to speak with them the following day. To cut a long story short one of the girls manifested demons on the floor on my office. After she regained consciousness from a time of exocising prayer,and I counseled her to commit her life to Christ and also make a complete break of all occult practices, which included getting rid of a small trinket which she wore around her neck."
"Two weeks later, I received a phone call from her friend to say that she was still having blackouts. Once again all sorts of demonic manifestations came through this quiet young girl as she laid on my office floor in a blacked-out state. As she lays on the floor, I noticed she was gripping something around her neck so tightly that all the blood had drained out of her hand. i pried back the fingers of her now white hand to find the trinket I had told her to get rid of. it looked like "Tinkerbell" from Peter Pan, and was made of silver. I felt it was probably a goddess of fertility, or something similar. I took it from her hand, walked to the other side of my office and hit it with a hammer. She remained blacked-out in the far corner of the room. Two of my friends were praying for her. I had my back to her, and yet every time I hit that trinket with the hammer, demons in her creamed. I must have hit it five or six times and each time I hit it, they screamed. It was something out of a horror movie."
"After I had spoken at a young people's camp, a seventeen year-old asked for counsel. His complaint was that he had an inferiority complex. as I quietly prayed for him he blacked out, slumped onto the floor, with his back arched, and screamed as demons began to manifest. Using the authority of the name of Jesus I commanded the spirits to tell me the area of stronghold in the young man's life. The word "Bitterness!" came from the youth's mouth."
Ray Comfort sounds to me like a charismatic, recall that he also recommended some charismatic organizations earlier in his book. Can Christians today cast demons? I thought these sign gifts were done away with the completion of the New Testament? Charismatics believes that Christians can be demon possess and that they can cast out demons. Only God can perform miracles today, but Christians today don't have the gift of miracles today.
I am sure the Apostle Paul would disagree Dr. Bob. I think it does matter what you use and how you use it. God does not do anything wiley-niley while he does use some unorthodox measures to accomplish his mission he never compromises. I don't think we should be wrapped around the handle so much that we miss the time to witness due to "arguing about witnessing" but I also think that we need to witness the Gospel of Christ. Though I'm not certain I could agree with your reference as "God's Law"...that term confused me to say the least since Christ's coming seperated us from the "Law"...I digress that must be another thread subject somewhere around here. 
You are reading the wrong passages. Try Matt. 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20 and Acts 1. These passages teach something called the "Great Commission" (have you heard of it?
), which tells believers of all kinds (Arminian and Calvinist, Fundamentalist and Evangelical) to get the Gospel into all nations and every person.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Go out into the highways and byways and compel them to come in.
Hmm. Sounds familiar, standingfirm. Seems like I have a book of sermons by a man named Rice with that title, "Compel Them to Come In."
standingfirminChrist
New Member
How can one who claims to be of Christ not have a desire to invite people to learn of Him?
Only one who is backslidden and disobedient to Christ's last command.
This theory would mean that Peter never got saved since Andrew did nothing but "invite" him to see Jesus or the woman at the well who didn't witness just invited people to come hear what this man had to say.
Now if you are saying that "soul-winning" can be considered an invitation to church as well as a personal sharing of the gospel...then I can agree with you but to say that soul-winning is only a certain way (wahtever way that is), I think is wrong. Because Jesus personally called some to be His followers, He did actions to cause some to follow Him and He let some to invite others to Him. We can't be 'lifestyle envangelist' and expect to be fulfilling the Great Commission yet we can't ignore our evangelism in our lifestyle or fail to invite people to Christ (read Church).
For me personally I am turned off by "Street Preaching" where people hold signs and shout at cars at a stop light. I would not be part of this just because it conflicts with what I feel should be more personal approach whether door-to-door or an invite to Church. I'll leave tracts if no one is at home because I feel God can still bless this and it can be considered an invitation to our Church. Now "Street Preaching" may work and the Lord may bless it (and I may be missing blessings) but this version of Street Preaching is not for me. While we do stand outside of the military gates here and ask people of their relationship with God and share with them the Gospel...I don't consider this street preaching...I have seen the Lord bless this as much or more than a door-to-door style of soul-winning. Sometimes the only time they give us is just enough to invite them to Church and give them a tract.
And I say all of this to say that the Lord will bless all of this and I believe this is all part of the Great Commission!!
You are reading the wrong passages. Try Matt. 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20 and Acts 1. These passages teach something called the "Great Commission" (have you heard of it?
), which tells believers of all kinds (Arminian and Calvinist, Fundamentalist and Evangelical) to get the Gospel into all nations and every person.
As far as I can understand the rules of context and reading, your 'Great Commission' was not given to all believers, but only to the eleven disciples or apostles whom the Lord personally chose.
{b]They [/b], not you, nor Calvin, nor Arminius, nor Wesley, nor John Rice, nor Bob Hughes, were given the command to go and make disciples of all nations, as in Peter being told not to call unclean that which the Lord has cleansed.
Give me one Scripture where Paul, or Peter, or John, or the Lord Himself, commanded any church, or any church member to go out and 'win souls'.
Bob Dudley
New Member
do you really believe that, pinoybaptist, or are you just bustin' John's chops? If you believe you are not to go out and reach the lost then I really feel sorry for you. That's just so sad. You are missing out on so many blessings.
Bob Dudley
New Member
Also, I would suggest reading Paul's speach to the Ephesian elders in Acts 20 with Ezekiel 33. Paul took the Great Commission very seriously and he wasn't there for the Great Commission.
You are reading the wrong passages. Try Matt. 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20 and Acts 1. These passages teach something called the "Great Commission" (have you heard of it?
), which tells believers of all kinds (Arminian and Calvinist, Fundamentalist and Evangelical) to get the Gospel into all nations and every person.
As far as I can understand the rules of context and reading, your 'Great Commission' was not given to all believers, but only to the eleven disciples or apostles whom the Lord personally chose.
{b]They , not you, nor Calvin, nor Arminius, nor Wesley, nor John Rice, nor Bob Hughes, were given the command to go and make disciples of all nations, as in Peter being told not to call unclean that which the Lord has cleansed.
Give me one Scripture where Paul, or Peter, or John, or the Lord Himself, commanded any church, or any church member to go out and 'win souls'. [/b]</font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, pinoybaptist, you have obviously never really studied the Great Commission. Let me guess, are you a 5-point Calvinist of the Primitive Baptist stripe who opposes any and all evangelism? If so, you are the type of chap who, though a "pastor," refused to allow an evangelist of my aquaintance to witness about Christ to his sons in Texas about 80 years ago.
(1) Notice in the context of the Great Commission as given in Luke (24:44-49) that it was given to "the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them" (24:33). If the 11 apostles and the believers gathered with them on the Lord's day does not mean the church to you, you really need to fix your doctrine.
(2) Look in the book of Acts, which is full of folks both big and small, apostles and averge believers giving the Gospel. I'd much rather follow their example than the Primitive Baptist example.