So, can Christ’s kingdom be seen with the eye and touched with the hand? Is it of this world?
If I remember correctly, you’ve claimed to have left your former radical Dispensationlism. I’m not convinced you have.
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Human vs. Divine Side of Jesus
- Thread starter Ascetic X
- Start date
So, can Christ’s kingdom be seen with the eye and touched with the hand? Is it of this world?
If I remember correctly, you’ve claimed to have left your former radical Dispensationlism. I’m not convinced you have.
So was Jesus and our resurrection physical in nature then?
And I hold to CT theology, but Historical premil position
In your view of our resurrection, if we’re buried 6’ under in a coffin & vault, how do we make it to the surface? And you never answered the question, can Christ’s kingdom be seen with the eye and touched with the hand? Is it of this world?
Is it ‘heresy’ to ask these questions, heresy bird?
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That Physical body gets raised up when glorified
You've a different notion of 'physical' than I do. To me 'physical' means solid material, has mass, weight, and takes up space. How does something like that penetrate through the casket & vault & 6' of earth to return to the 'physical' realm? This is not a ridiculous, unrealistic zombie movie we're discussing.
And you still haven't answered the question, can Christ’s kingdom be seen with the eye and touched with the hand? Is it of this world?
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I am no physicist. But…
The only thing stopping you from walking through walls is the force the wall exerts on you. If God resurrects your physical body, what power in this world will force you, against its Creator, to stay put?
Jesus didn’t have a physical body when He came to Thomas? What part of this physical world will resist Him?
Ascetic X
Active Member
Yes, the resurrected Jesus had a physical body that could pass through walls, perhaps causing the atoms of His body to slip in between the atoms of the wall, since all physical objects are mostly space.
Christ in His resurrected physical body ate fish and displayed His wounds to Doubting Thomas and invited him to touch Him. Christ in His resurrected physical body also ascended up into heaven.
We have no clear, compelling scripture indicating that this body was transformed into a non-material spirit when Jesus entered heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. But descriptions of Christ’s body in the book of Revelation convey a very dramatic splendor and majesty.
A believer’s dead body in a coffin underground, when resurrected, could probably pass through the coffin and soil, similar to how Jesus passed through walls. Resurrection of deceased believers who are cremated, died in a fire or explosion, were eaten by sea creatures, rotted away undiscovered in the woods, etc. requires the re-assembly of their atoms.
Note that the physical body of Jesus, prior to His resurrection, walked on water. So what we conjecture in science about physical entities may not be the entire picture.
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In your eschatology (I'm assuming it's pre-mil), are the saints resurrected to join in Christ's millennial reign?
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Yes.
2 Timothy 2:11-12
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Jude 1:14-15
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
You do realize the Saints are reigning with Christ from heaven in Rev 20, right?
Ascetic X
Active Member
The saints are not reigning with Christ from heaven, if you mean in heaven, but are on the earth.
Revelation 20:4,7,8,9
4 And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years….
7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
So you believe in soul sleep?
Pinpoint the verse in Revelation where Christ sets foot on terra firma.
No. I believe to be absent here is to be present with the Lord.
@JesusFan does that make me a heretic?
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Ascetic X
Active Member
I shall do it again. Saints reign with Christ and enemies march across the earth to surround the camp of the saints.
Revelation 20:4,7,8,9
4 And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years….
7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.
I’ll ask again, where in Revelation does Christ set foot on earth?
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
So what are the rest of the dead not doing in Rev. 20:5?
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
This point is a matter of perspective in Revelation 20. There is likely nothing that I say that would change your mind.
Are you of the mind that the thousand years is the present time?
Lol, not living.
5 | The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection. |