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Human vs. Divine Side of Jesus

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Is nothing in Revelation literal or do you only make literal what you think should be?

There are clearly some things in Revelation that are not to be understood literally even if John literally saw exactly what he wrote down, though I am not saying he saw something different than what really will happen.
Rev. 12 is a good example of what is not to be taken as literal. It is even prefaced as a wonder, something to think about.

But I also believe that John was caught up to heaven, whether in the body or out of the body, I cannot tell. And if Paul doesn’t know, I will not presume it is not possible to be in the body when it happens.
2 Corinthians 12:3
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
And the face is a quote from Paul. I didn’t put it in there. It is original to the text.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Is this what you mean by soul sleep? Soul Sleep

I simply quoted the scripture, "The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished." Is that what you call 'soul sleep'?
“Soul sleep is the belief that the soul becomes unconscious after death until the final resurrection, though mainstream Christian theology generally rejects this view.”

If this is what you read, that fits.
I don’t believe souls sleep. I do believe bodies sleep and are wakened again.

Your lack of answer, and your placement of Scripture, leads me to conclude that you think that the lost enter soul sleep.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Your lack of answer, and your placement of Scripture, leads me to conclude that you think that the lost enter soul sleep.

So, if I were to interpret "The rest of the dead lived not" as meaning "the lost enter soul sleep" (which I don't (I guess)), what is wrong with that? You act like @JesusFan, frothing at the bit to bring down the charge of heresy.

How would that be contradictory to scripture? IOW, what is so seriously wrong with the notion of 'soul sleep'? I've never researched it.
 
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Ben1445

Well-Known Member
So, if I were to interpret "The rest of the dead lived not" as meaning "the lost enter soul sleep" (which I don't (I guess)), what is wrong with that? You act like @JesusFan, frothing at the bit to bring down the charge of heresy.

How would that be contradictory to scripture? IOW, what is so seriously wrong with the notion of 'soul sleep'? I've never researched it.
The rich man would appreciate some of it. It is just not biblical.
I just connected the lack of physical bodily resurrection (which some preterists claim. Now that I think about it, asterisktom was the one who made that statement.) with soul sleep if we were only discussing souls with out physical bodies.
In other words, in bodily resurrection, “the rest lived not again” is understood by me as they are not bodily resurrected.
If there is no resurrection of the body, the statement must refer to the soul. This doesn’t fit with Jesus’ teachings.

Could you fill in the blanks for me here where I may be mistaking your view for someone else’s?

Edit: no froth by the way. I am just curious about how preterist thinking changes the outlook of the future.
If Revelation is past, we don’t have anything to look forward to as we would be looking at (a very frightening) new heaven and new earth.
I don’t see any consistent approach in preterist thought across the board. How do you determine what is past and what is not?
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Is nothing in Revelation literal or do you only make literal what you think should be?

Is it literally 24 hours, or literally 1 hour, or simply conveying the idea of 'happening suddenly'?

Revelation Chapter 18

8​

Therefore in one day shall her plagues come, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judged her.

17​

for in an hour so great riches is made desolate. And every shipmaster, and every one that saileth any wither, and mariners, and as many as gain their living by sea, stood afar off,

Is it literally, exactly, one thousand years to the day? Or simply conveying the idea of a long period of time?

Revelation Chapter 20

4​

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Is it literally, only a thousand hills?

Psalms Chapter 50

10​

For every beast of the forest is mine, And the cattle upon a thousand hills.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Is it literally 24 hours, or literally 1 hour, or simply conveying the idea of 'happening suddenly'?

Revelation Chapter 18

8​

Therefore in one day shall her plagues come, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judged her.

17​

for in an hour so great riches is made desolate. And every shipmaster, and every one that saileth any wither, and mariners, and as many as gain their living by sea, stood afar off,
In an hour fits into a day.
And “in an hour” is the expression of the merchants. The merchants could be exaggerating or entirely correct.

Is it literally, exactly, one thousand years to the day? Or simply conveying the idea of a long period of time?
God is able to keep punctual timing. So whether or not it is possible to be exactly 1000 years is not a question.

I don’t see why the specific number of years should be given if it were not close to a thousand, within the same unit of measure of a year. But if it is to be taken literally, I don’t see why it shouldn’t be exactly within the day or the second. Time serves God. He created it. It limits us.

It conveys a long period of time either way. It allows for a limited amount of time and a defined period and purpose if it is literal.

In a young earth viewpoint, there were about two thousand years from creation to Noah, another two thousand from Noah to Christ, and another two thousand from Christ to now. (all rough estimates. I’m not speculating dates for return)
In the day is as a thousand years view, that leaves only one more day, The seventh day, and by the pattern of creation, a day of rest.
After the flood, God remade the physical world. A rebuilding of the physical world took place afterwards. That was is insufficient to bring about reformation of man.
In Christ, God allowed for a recreation of the inner man. In the following days, a recreation of the spiritual world has a foundation established to be built upon. In a physically present thousand year reign, there will be rest from all of our work.
And afterward, a new heaven and a new earth with a new man to inhabit it.

The explanation fits what I see and matches too a God of order. I am not dogmatic that it is correct. But it fits.
In the same way creation shows that God made
1. Day/night2. sky/water3. dry land and plants
Filled with filled withfilled with
4. Sun moon stars 5. Fish and birds6. Land animals and man
Pardon the children’s Sunday School vocabulary. I know that the uses of these words are controversial for some. I intend to show the correlation between days.
Revelation Chapter 20

4​

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So I don’t see a problem with a literal thousand years. It shows order.

I am not bound to it. I am bound to whatever God actually is doing. But it will be a little while before I know for certain that we have passed the realm of possibility of literal thousand years equaling a “day” in God’s week.

Is it literally, only a thousand hills?

Psalms Chapter 50

10​

For every beast of the forest is mine, And the cattle upon a thousand hills.
In context of the rest of the chapter, it is clearly all the cattle.

“For every beast of the forest is mine,
and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
I know all the fowls of the mountains:
and the wild beasts of the field are mine.”
“for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.”

So context makes certain that you know that the limit of what God owns in this world is only what He has placed here.

There is apparently no such clear context for a thousand year reign because we are here discussing it and will not be the last people to do it. (As far as I can tell)
 

Ascetic X

Active Member
Are you saying that Jesus feared them that can kill the body in violation of the commandment He delivered to not fear them that can kill the body?
Excellent, thoughtful question.

Jesus prayed so fervently that He sweated what seemed like great drops of blood. He asked if the cup of God’s wrath could pass from Him.

Apparently, the human side of Jesus was concerned about the pain, agony, anguish, misery, torture, humiliation, torment, and darkness of the cross.

I wouldn’t say Jesus feared the Roman soldiers who would scourge Him and nail him to the cross, but He was vividly realizing all the intense suffering He was heading into.

We can more fully appreciate His sacrifice by pondering what Jesus felt when He who had no sin became sin for us, for the joy set before Him that enabled Him to endure that terrible experience. He paid the grim, gruesome price of our salvation.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
I wouldn’t say Jesus feared the Roman soldiers who would scourge Him and nail him to the cross, but He was vividly realizing all the intense suffering He was heading into.
What is there to fear in a man except what he is able to do to you?

Jesus feared God. He was to feel the sting of death, sin, and the indignation and wrath of a righteous God.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Hebrews 4:15, For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 5:7-9, Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Yea. This is NOT 'thousands of years and still waiting'.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20
Still has not yet happen, as is referring to Future Second Coming event
 
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