Humanism of arminianism

[Jarthur001]

Then why would you even want to bring up such inflammatory rhetoric?

Brother sag.

We debate theology here. The Arminian view must be considered. I have been in the publishing business for a number of years. In the beginning I use to want to hide subjects from the public. I didn't feel as if some subjects should be talked about. Others told me I was wrong. I have found that I indeed was wrong.

When the subject is talked about openly, the truth always comes out. Its placed on the table and people talk about it. Some agree, some disagree. But in the end we all have a better understanding of the subject. Defending your views does indeed make you grow.

If you see the words on a debate board as hurtful, maybe this is not the place for you. Hardly anyone takes this personal. Please do not yourself. At times it is hard to tell if a person is anger or not. I have been wrong for thinking others were mad at me, and I know many times others think i'm mad/upset, when I am only playing with the poster.

In text posting, it is hard to carry over the spirit in which it is meant. Some use smile faces to try and let the other one know it is a joke. But still others use smile faces to mislead...saying what they mean, and hiding it with a smile. Bold letters are used my some to CRY OUT, but some use it to point out a key word.

I may not be worth trying to find out what the other paoter REALLY MEANT. Just work with the words they give you and don't worry about it.

I think you will find that if you disagree, you only need to express why you disagree. This will not distory your faith, but rather build it. In all the years I have debated Calvinism vs Arminianism, I know of only about 15 people that have changed their beliefs to Calvinism. Most....yes...HUNDREDS do not change but grow in their faith of Arminianism.

If you disagree, state why to teach others. This would be better than crying about it.

 

[Jarthur001]

"There are some people who fetch out the Doctrines of Grace just in that way! I can see them trotting along with the Doctrine of Election just in order that some Arminian may dispute with them about it and that they may then bark at him! Do not act so, Beloved!" —Charles Spurgeon, Autobiography

Thanks for another quote.

 

[quantumfaith]

I wonder at what point people on this board are going to begin realizing that:

a. There are more options than Calvinist/Reformed or Armininian

b. Our enemy is not those on the other (perceived) side...but is sin of pride and arrogance of conceit and unwillingness to feed the poor, clothe the nak3d, and shelter the homeless...

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

Sometimes I get the idea that this becoming "CalvinistrUS.com." I for one find the premise of this thread to be highly insulting and inflammatory.

Arminianism, like Humanism is a religion without the God of the Bible,.... If that isn't denying the salvation of those who don't fully buy into author's point of view then I don't know what is.

Agreement here 110%

My conviction is if someone acknowledges the monotheist God of the Bible (YHWH). The situation of man being that he is in need of redemption from his fallen state and is unable to appropriate that redemption in and of himself. God's plan of ultimate redemption culminated in the life, death, burial and resurrection of His son Jesus the Christ. One acknowledges the person, role, purpose and their ultimate need for this person of Christ and believes in the their heart and confesses with their mouth that Christ is Lord, then they, as far as I know or can ever know, are members of the household of faith. Their doctrines may differ from mine, their interpretations may differ from mine, but any judgement about them being a "religion without the God of the Bible" will ONLY be in the purview of the Creator himself.

 

[Old Union Brother]

I have resisted comment until now and I will let the scriptures do the talking:

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Is a proud and haughty look or actions pleasing to the Lord? I think not. If we have professed Christ we are to abmonish each other as Brother's and Sisters.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Agreement here 110%

My conviction is if someone acknowledges the monotheist God of the Bible (YHWH). The situation of man being that he is in need of redemption from his fallen state and is unable to appropriate that redemption in and of himself. God's plan of ultimate redemption culminated in the life, death, burial and resurrection of His son Jesus the Christ. One acknowledges the person, role, purpose and their ultimate need for this person of Christ and believes in the their heart and confesses with their mouth that Christ is Lord, then they, as far as I know or can ever know, are members of the household of faith. Their doctrines may differ from mine, their interpretations may differ from mine, but any judgement about them being a "religion without the God of the Bible" will ONLY be in the purview of the Creator himself.

Quantum, then why were all the RC's pushed out....Answer at your peril my brother.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have resisted comment until now and I will let the scriptures do the talking:

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Is a proud and haughty look or actions pleasing to the Lord? I think not. If we have professed Christ we are to abmonish each other as Brother's and Sisters.

Brother, I think we are

 

[Jarthur001]

Agreement here 110%

My conviction is if someone acknowledges the monotheist God of the Bible (YHWH). The situation of man being that he is in need of redemption from his fallen state and is unable to appropriate that redemption in and of himself. God's plan of ultimate redemption culminated in the life, death, burial and resurrection of His son Jesus the Christ. One acknowledges the person, role, purpose and their ultimate need for this person of Christ and believes in the their heart and confesses with their mouth that Christ is Lord, then they, as far as I know or can ever know, are members of the household of faith. Their doctrines may differ from mine, their interpretations may differ from mine, but any judgement about them being a "religion without the God of the Bible" will ONLY be in the purview of the Creator himself.

Really?

You were on another thread. You could have said it was wrong for someone to say..."brethren mistakenly elevate Calvin to the supreme authority on all matters even surpassing Paul and the Holy Spirit.".....but you did not.

Why? Why is it wrong to take pot shots at Calvinist???

 

[pinoybaptist]

Really?

..............................................................................................................
Why? Why is it wrong to take pot shots at Calvinist???

now you're getting me confused, brother.
do you mean "why is it NOT wrong to take potshots at Calvinists" ?

 

[Jarthur001]

here is another web site that agrees wth Mink.

http://arminianheresy.blogspot.com/2006/05/humanism-of-arminianism.html

If you go to the link, you will find the famous Arminian prayer.

`Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists.
Lord, I was born with a glorious free will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace.

If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved.
Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do.

There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am.

It was not thy grace that made us differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not - that is the difference between me and them.'

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

here is another web site that agrees wth Mink.

http://arminianheresy.blogspot.com/2006/05/humanism-of-arminianism.html

If you go to the link, you will find the famous Arminian prayer.

J, how do you see those posts in Aqua Marine print?

 

[Jarthur001]

now you're getting me confused, brother.
do you mean "why is it NOT wrong to take potshots at Calvinists" ?

On two threads this quote was talked about...

some of our brethren mistakenly elevate Calvin to the supreme authority on all matters even surpassing Paul and the Holy Spirit.

Non-Calvinist didn't see anything wrong with that statement. It was asked to give quotes...non were given. I don't believe Calvinist place John Calvin above Scripture, when most Calvinist have not read Calvin. With no proof I would call that a pot shot at someones faith.

Non-Calvinist laughed. Now they are crying. Why?

 

[Jarthur001]

J, how do you see those posts in Aqua Marine print?

ha...its hard. I have no idea why somone would do this. But...what I did is read the headlines and if I wanted to read the post, I copied and pasted it into a text doc.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

On two threads this quote was talked about...



Non-Calvinist didn't see anything wrong with that statement. It was asked to give quotes...non were given. I don't believe Calvinist place John Calvin above Scripture, when most Calvinist have not read Calvin. With no proof I would call that a pot shot at someones faith.

Non-Calvinist laughed. Now they are crying. Why?

Another good question....how did Reformed Believers get the name Calvinist anyway.....is this guilty by association or something?

 

[Cypress]

Brother sag.

We debate theology here. The Arminian view must be considered. I have been in the publishing business for a number of years. In the beginning I use to want to hide subjects from the public. I didn't feel as if some subjects should be talked about. Others told me I was wrong. I have found that I indeed was wrong.

When the subject is talked about openly, the truth always comes out. Its placed on the table and people talk about it. Some agree, some disagree. But in the end we all have a better understanding of the subject. Defending your views does indeed make you grow.

If you see the words on a debate board as hurtful, maybe this is not the place for you. Hardly anyone takes this personal. Please do not yourself. At times it is hard to tell if a person is anger or not. I have been wrong for thinking others were mad at me, and I know many times others think i'm mad/upset, when I am only playing with the poster.

In text posting, it is hard to carry over the spirit in which it is meant. Some use smile faces to try and let the other one know it is a joke. But still others use smile faces to mislead...saying what they mean, and hiding it with a smile. Bold letters are used my some to CRY OUT, but some use it to point out a key word.

I may not be worth trying to find out what the other paoter REALLY MEANT. Just work with the words they give you and don't worry about it.

I think you will find that if you disagree, you only need to express why you disagree. This will not distory your faith, but rather build it. In all the years I have debated Calvinism vs Arminianism, I know of only about 15 people that have changed their beliefs to Calvinism. Most....yes...HUNDREDS do not change but grow in their faith of Arminianism.

If you disagree, state why to teach others. This would be better than crying about it.

Brother, if the parts of your post that I bolded are indeed the truth, what is your opinion of why so few have changed their position. Honest question, because if it is true, it seems to me that truth seekers should be able to find it.:love2:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother, if the parts of your post that I bolded are indeed the truth, what is your opinion of why so few have changed their position. Honest question, because if it is true, it seems to me that truth seekers should be able to find it.:love2:

ah, Brother Cypress.....many have.:thumbsup:

So I would have to disagree with Jarthur. I even see it happening more & more each day. Generally its gradual, but many fall into it given time.

 

[Cypress]

ah, Brother Cypress.....many have.:thumbsup:

So I would have to disagree with Jarthur. I even see it happening more & more each day. Generally its gradual, but many fall into it given time.

I agree, it waxes and wanes:love2:

 

[Jarthur001]

Brother, if the parts of your post that I bolded are indeed the truth, what is your opinion of why so few have changed their position. Honest question, because if it is true, it seems to me that truth seekers should be able to find it.:love2:

Hello Cypress,

Good question, one I hope I can address to your liking.

I have seen more change than a small handful. I have witnessed a full church change from Arminian to Calvinist in just over a year. God has allowed even me to teach others one on one over the years. I write 3 columns that run in local papers. People know me as the Calvinist in my area and will call me up to show me where I'm wrong.

Will the ones that come with a debate mindset change? It is rare. However, it does happen.

Just in the last few months I meet with an Arminian believer that hated Calvinism in the beginning. Once a week to talked about the doctrines over a Big Mac. Each week the Arminian came with verses to blast me. I however never know this till last week. he never shared them. He said I always address the question before he got around to asking it. He now calls himself a Calvinist preacher.

I also have a Bible study in my home and other homes if they ask me, teaching the doctrines that they had never heard before. Most of the ones that come, within a year change to a Calvinist Church. Group settings seem to help. People don't get mad and blow their top in front of others.

I have had people get mad and storm out of my house saying they would never be back. They did come back and are now Calvinist.

So I am sure that people change.

However, people will not change in a debate. Or I should say...it is rare. On the internet, its even harder. People think nothing of telling a lie on the internet. So, they tell lies. Face to face, they are more honoring to others.

On the internet people hide behind something they are not. They google and post words, and take a hour to write 1 or 2 lines, chose words with care. They think they are being clever.

Face to face, people don't act this way. The truth comes, and there is no where to hide. I make them read the verse and ask them what it means. They will tell you. On the internet you ask them what a verse means, they quote another verse. Its all a game

The few that I have seen change in a debate (on the internet), it did not happen that moment. They went away and came back 3=4 months later saying they had study it and are now a Calvinist.

 

[Jarthur001]

Getting back to the subject....

Mink also says...

Secondly, let us consider the HUMANISM OF ARMINIANISM in the light of the Bible doctrine of the total depravity of man. The Psalmist says: ". . . Verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity" (Ps. 39:5). This text refers to man as he is in his Adamic nature, and it plainly says that Adam and all of his posterity are in their fallen nature, totally depraved. The text allows for no exceptions, and allows for no partial depravity. Every man was utterly and spiritually ruined in Adam, for when Adam rebelled against God (Gen. 3:6), his action was not representatively singular, for he was at the time the federal head of the family of man, and in his defiance of God, his posterity became utterly defiled, for they acted in Adam (1 Cor. 15:21,22).


Arminianism takes exception to the doctrine of total depravity of fallen nature, and says: "Man is not a sinner at birth, but at birth man becomes a potential sinner" (John R. Rice, as quoted by John Zens, from The Sword), Religious Humanism calls the Bible account of the fall of Adam a fable, and Arminianism has put a little sugar on their position, so as to satisfy the religious curiosity of the natural man. However, if a man takes arsenic coated with sugar, it will kill him as readily as the plain or uncoated. Damnable doctrine is just that, no matter what flavor it comes in. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Rom. 5:12).


Humanism teaches that man as he is in nature is a moral giant and of infinite worth. Arminianism teaches the same thing, saying: "God valued man so highly that He sent His Son to redeem the whole family of man." Conversely, the Scripture says: "They have all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one" (Rom. 3:12). The word, "unprofitable," as used in this Scripture does not simply mean, no profit, but that man in the Edenic transgression suffered an irreparable deficit; and this loss has left man without God or hope.


Christ, in explicit and emphatic words said: "The flesh profiteth nothing" (John 6:63). But no matter how well defined the words of Christ may be, they have never made a favorable impression on Arminianism, and this pseudo system says: "God needs us, for we are the only feet, hands, and mouth God has." Poor handicapped God. But their god is not the God of the Bible, for He "taketh not pleasure in the legs of a man . . . and as he has purposed, so shall it stand . . . for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Ps. 147:10; Isa. 14:24; Phil. 2:13).


The advocates of Arminianism and Humanism rebuke all who proclaim the immutable sovereignty of God over His universe, and all that is therein. They voice their objection, saying: "Your position on depravity dehumanizes man, and makes him as bad as the beast of the field." This objection is not even near the truth of what sovereign grace believers contend for. Our position is based squarely on Scripture, therefore we do not dehumanize man, but emphasize the fact he is man, and as man he has no God-likeness. Fallen and unredeemed man is the antithesis of God, for he is ungodly, and is an unrelenting enemy of God (Rom. 4:5; 5:10).

 

[webdog]

I'm not sure why you would call for this being that you say you are not Arminian nor a Calvinist, yet you allow and even partake in attacking Calvinist, but seem upset over this.

I didn't see you make a stand when other bad over stepped their words about what Calvinist believe, even when you were asked flat out, if you agreed.

Do you show your true colors? Is your hate only toward Calvinist?

You didn't answer the question...do you agree with him?

Buddy, you cannot see when another poster reports a post...so leave the omniscience to God (the REAL God that both Arminians and calvinists serve).

I don't question the salvation of calvinists. You guys just like to take quotes out of context and how they were meant to say I do.