canadyjd
Well-Known Member
You completely miss the point. The OP has never said people do not respond to God, but just the opposite.
It is God who initiates and people respond. I’m certain that was the clearly stated point of the OP
peace to you
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Humans respond to God’s revelation of Himself
- Thread starter canadyjd
- Start date
It is God who initiates and people respond. I’m certain that was the clearly stated point of the OP
peace to you
You have not thought things through very well. If this is unconditional love for the few he selected, it is the exact opposite for the many who wre not, no?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I did not miss the point, did I not say their responded. But the point you fail to grasp is that their had to make the choice as to how they responded.
How many times have I posted that God uses various means to draw people to Himself. People respond by either trusting in or rejecting God.
So your silly idea that God is waiting on pins and needles is just you trying to justify your theological view. God is omniscient so He knows all those that will freely trust in Him and even when they will do so. No surprises or anticipation on His part.
You wrote this in the OP
"There are some so blinded with hatred of the thought that God, in His sovereignty, has determined to eternal fate of all from before the beginning of creation they will twist every passage which teaches God’s sovereignty to mean the opposite of the context."
If God has determined the eternal fate of everyone from before creation then why did Christ have to go to the cross.
By your view those chosen before creation have been saved without Christ and those not chosen cannot be saved by Him.
So again why the cross, why the gospel, why evangelize? If you say the bible commands it then you have to answer why it is necessary.
Did God get it wrong, He forgot to save some of those that were supposed to be saved? Perhaps He is being disingenuous when He said the sacrifice Jesus made was for everyone 1 John 2:2 and that He desires all to know Him and be saved 1 Timothy 2.3-4? Or did you get it wrong when you read into scripture what is not there?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You ask a lot of questions. About time you told us what you think.
No doubt he was no different than any other devil:
33 They answered unto him, We are Abraham`s seed, and have never yet been in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham`s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. Jn 8
All are intended in the temporal sense, BUT, all who are 'saved' temporally are definitely 'saved' eternally. All who are 'saved' eternally are not neccessarily 'saved' temporally.
I do not think Judas, who was a devil, had a choice but was called by Christ to betray him, that the word might be fulfilled.
Egad, NO! NOT called by Christ to betray! Was NOT the spirit of Christ that moved Judas:
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do..... Jn 8
26 Jesus therefore answereth, He it is, for whom I shall dip the sop, and give it him. So when he had dipped the sop, he taketh and giveth it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
27 And after the sop, then entered Satan into him. Jesus therefore saith unto him, What thou doest, do quickly. Jn13
Christ chose a devil so that the scripture would be fulfilled:
12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Jn 17
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I do remember, somewhat, having this conversation before, though I have not really understood your argument.
You appear to be saying there are the “lost” and the “saved”. Among the saved there are …
1. Those that are “called” (His sheep) temporally. They hear and respond to the gospel. They are also saved eternally.
2. Those that are saved eternally, but not temporally. These are folks who never hear the gospel, never know Christ temporally, yet God has chosen them for salvation eternally.
Do I understand your position correctly?
peace to you
From yours above.
Christ chose a devil so that the scripture would be fulfilled:
I thought that is what I was saying in my post.
Ps 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. John 13:9
IMHO Judas responded just as Jesus knew he would, the day he choose him.
You appear to be saying:
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved from hell; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16
is that what you mean?
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You appear to be saying:
6 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee from hell. 1 Tim 4
Is that what you mean?
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You appear to be saying:
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you from hell, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pe 3
Is that what you mean?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Why are you avoiding answering my question?
Do I understand your position correctly? Are you saying there are two types of “saved” people?
1. Those that are called and respond to the gospel are saved both temporally and eternally
2. Those that are saved eternally, but not temporally do not hear or respond to the gospel, but have been chosen by God for salvation. They are not saved temporally, but are saved eternally.
Please let me know if I understand you correctly?
peace to you
Do I understand your position correctly? Are you saying there are two types of “saved” people?
1. Those that are called and respond to the gospel are saved both temporally and eternally
2. Those that are saved eternally, but not temporally do not hear or respond to the gospel, but have been chosen by God for salvation. They are not saved temporally, but are saved eternally.
Please let me know if I understand you correctly?
peace to you
Temporal…PB’s rightly divide the two salvation processes. It’s probably a new development for anyone from the traditional Reformed school of thought approaching the topic. You should go slowly in explaining it. Give the synapses time to fire.