Hundreds Of Questions About The Christian God

[irmadlad]

First, I apologize for being absence for the past few days. I have had some pressing business matters on my plate. I'm a one man show for several businesses.

Second, I gave my introduction here and have been given the go ahead by Scarlett O. to post my questions on your forum here. I do hope I am in the right place, but if not, I pretty sure this forum software allows the admin to move the thread to another location.

Third, I have been giving some of thought as to how I want to open the discussion. I want this to be a fair and productive discussion. As I mentioned in my introduction, I have read and studied many religious manuscripts. I have probably read the KJV and a few derivatives more than most ardent church goers, over my lifetime. This is not a brag on my part to show off my vast religious intellect. I can assure you, that doesn't exist. I am am always ready to be schooled in areas that I may lack.

I think the best way for me to proceed is to ask three prep questions. The reason being, Christianity is a huge umbrella of belief systems. Judaism doesn't recognize the New Testament. Catholics, Protestants, etc argue over which books should be canonical. Each with their own belief structure and fervent followers. There really doesn't seem to be a standard, which bothers me greatly. I like standards. These questions will help me frame the discussion so I am not asking questions about things you don't necessarily believe in, or hold as a core conviction.

Three prep questions:

• Christians believe in an infinite, omnipotent, omniscient God, without limitations. We could sum up everything God could ever be described as with two words; 'without limitations'. I'll foreshadow here a bit and tell you I'm going to lean in heavily on 'without limitations'. Without limitations is the crux, the key. Without this, everything else falls apart. When you reach the level of "without limitations" you either is or you is not, to quote Louis Jordan. There is no gray area, because gray areas would render God limited and therefore not God.
• To put a finer point on it, Christians believe in a God who knows all, sees all, is all, does all, created all; seen and unseen.
• Christians believe that their Bible is the infallible, inspired word of God. Now, I'm a mediocre musician on my best day. I take inspiration from the blues, jazz, soul, R&B, etc, and homogenate these bits and pieces into my own style. However, we're not talking about that kind of inspiration. What I mean by inspired is: God reaching over the shoulder of the scribe as he dipped his reed in the inkwell, and wrote the words that God whispered into his ear. That kind of inspired. I realize it has been translated. Not many of us speak the ancient tongues.

So, there you go. Three prep questions. If anyone has any objections, edits, etc, I welcome you to comment as such.

Thank you for your time, patience, and hospitality.

 

[Silverhair]

First, I apologize for being absence for the past few days. I have had some pressing business matters on my plate. I'm a one man show for several businesses.

Second, I gave my introduction here and have been given the go ahead by Scarlett O. to post my questions on your forum here. I do hope I am in the right place, but if not, I pretty sure this forum software allows the admin to move the thread to another location.

Third, I have been giving some of thought as to how I want to open the discussion. I want this to be a fair and productive discussion. As I mentioned in my introduction, I have read and studied many religious manuscripts. I have probably read the KJV and a few derivatives more than most ardent church goers, over my lifetime. This is not a brag on my part to show off my vast religious intellect. I can assure you, that doesn't exist. I am am always ready to be schooled in areas that I may lack.

I think the best way for me to proceed is to ask three prep questions. The reason being, Christianity is a huge umbrella of belief systems. Judaism doesn't recognize the New Testament. Catholics, Protestants, etc argue over which books should be canonical. Each with their own belief structure and fervent followers. There really doesn't seem to be a standard, which bothers me greatly. I like standards. These questions will help me frame the discussion so I am not asking questions about things you don't necessarily believe in, or hold as a core conviction.

Three prep questions:

• Christians believe in an infinite, omnipotent, omniscient God, without limitations. We could sum up everything God could ever be described as with two words; 'without limitations'. I'll foreshadow here a bit and tell you I'm going to lean in heavily on 'without limitations'. Without limitations is the crux, the key. Without this, everything else falls apart. When you reach the level of "without limitations" you either is or you is not, to quote Louis Jordan. There is no gray area, because gray areas would render God limited and therefore not God.
• To put a finer point on it, Christians believe in a God who knows all, sees all, is all, does all, created all; seen and unseen.
• Christians believe that their Bible is the infallible, inspired word of God. Now, I'm a mediocre musician on my best day. I take inspiration from the blues, jazz, soul, R&B, etc, and homogenate these bits and pieces into my own style. However, we're not talking about that kind of inspiration. What I mean by inspired is: God reaching over the shoulder of the scribe as he dipped his reed in the inkwell, and wrote the words that God whispered into his ear. That kind of inspired. I realize it has been translated. Not many of us speak the ancient tongues.

So, there you go. Three prep questions. If anyone has any objections, edits, etc, I welcome you to comment as such.

Thank you for your time, patience, and hospitality.

I do not see where you would get any pushback on the first two prep questions. Where I see a problem is in how you understand the inspiration of God. As you have written it it is not inspiration of God but the dictation of God.

God's inspiration, as I understand it, was such that the authors in their own words penned all the truths that God wanted to convey to us. We see this most clearly in the gospels. They did not all include the same information or present common themes in the same words. They each presented a different view of Jesus:
Matthew portrays Him as the Jewish Messiah and promised King.
Mark as the faithful suffering Servant who gives His life as a ransom.
Luke as the Savior for all people.
John as the eternal Son of God who reveals the Father and offers eternal life.

​

 

[irmadlad]

RE: God's inspiration, as I understand it, was such that the authors in their own words penned all the truths that God wanted to convey to us

Ok fair. Taking what I said, would you agree with:

God 'whispered' the truths into the scribe's ears, and they wrote these truths in their own words?

Do you believe that these words, these truths, to be the infallible words of God?

 

[Deacon]

Pardon me but I don’t see any questions, merely statements or observations.

Addressing the first statement: God’s omnipotence does not mean God has no limitations. God has the ability to do anything consistent with his nature. He cannot do things that would contradict his character. So his limits are set by his very nature.

Rob

 

[Silverhair]

RE: God's inspiration, as I understand it, was such that the authors in their own words penned all the truths that God wanted to convey to us

Ok fair. Taking what I said, would you agree with:

God 'whispered' the truths into the scribe's ears, and they wrote these truths in their own words?

Do you believe that these words, these truths, to be the infallible words of God?

Could God have whispered in the scribe's ears, sure He could have if that was what He wanted to do. What we are told is that He inspired what we have 2 Ti_3:16 and that is all we can know.

When I look at the numerous prophecies made in the OT concerning Christ and future events to there time then I do not doubt the inspiration of scripture.

What we have in scripture are the infallible truths of God. The original manuscripts were the inspired words of God not the translations.

As you know Greek when it is translated can be rendered in various English words. But the message, the truths have not been lost. Where we run into problems is when man imposes their own views on the text.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Pardon me but I don’t see any questions, merely statements or observations.

Strange that. You saved me from looking back through things to try and find one.
I didn't remember there being any first go-round.

So, we want to stay with O.P., U?

Hundreds Of Questions About The Christian God​

or

Hundreds Of Questions About​

"The One and Only, Trice-Holy, True and Living, Creator Godhead of the UNIVERSE and AUTHOR of The Holy Bible."

Either way.

Prepare to Meet Your Maker.

 

[Deacon]

I like that you are a reader! …and an investigator. We are of the same breed. Retired people (of which I am one), have the reputation of being fixed in their ways, resistant to change. I am quite comfortable researching areas of interest and changing my views. God is immutable; I am quite mutable.

The difference between us is that I’ve taken a step of faith in the LORD.
I recognized in my teen years that I didn’t measure up, not with my standards, nor my parents standards and certainly not with God’s standards. I needed forgiveness and a new path to follow. I found that when I became a believer in Jesus.

I hope that through your studies you too might come to know our God and take the same step of faith. Perhaps we might help you in your discovery.

>>Your second point is related to your first.
Our God is the creator of all things that are not God.

This is where Louis Jordan’s statement about there being “no gray areas” comes into play.

As Creator, he is not affected by his creation…he is unchangeable, capturing the theological term called, immutability — the quality of being constant, unalterable, and perfectly consistent in his nature, character, purposes, and promises. (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17; Hebrews 13:8)

What this means is he is faithful and trustworthy to himself, so we too can trust and have faith in him.
In times of uncertainty, doubt, trials and tribulations, through tortuous, prolonged, seemingly hopeless illness, we can still trust that God is in control. We can turn to him knowing he is faithful.

If there was a wavering in his standards, God’s character would be impeached — he would be unable to uphold absolute standards — he would be mutable (changeable) and our faith in him would have reason to waver.

Rob

 

[irmadlad]

RE: Pardon me but I don’t see any questions, merely statements or observations.

Deacon, this is more like a conversation with questions. Much like I have had conversations on my porch for hours with Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and a couple guys in Judaism. The questions will come, I assure. For now, I just want to get a read of the room. As I said, Christianity is a huge umbrella of beliefs and convictions.

Thank you for your time and comment.

 

[irmadlad]

RE: I like that you are a reader! …and an investigator. We are of the same breed.

I turned off the TV decades ago. I am a prolific reader tho. I am medically retired, tho I still have three businesses I maintain. I can tell you emphatically, that even at 71, I am not fixed with just about anything. Since I was a wee lad, I've had this insatiable lust for to know. To try and grasp that which I see around me. It is a fascinating clock that keeps precise time. Each cog interlocking with the other in logic and order. Where once we saw chaos, now, with better technology and a different perspective, we see order, logic. To put that a religious perspective, if a God created all that we see and don't see, and it operates with logic, order, and precision, then I would expect that God to be a God of logic, order, and reason.

RE: The difference between us is that I’ve taken a step of faith in the LORD.

Someone or something in your past brought reasonable evidence that convinced you. It is this reasonable evidence that I hope you can bring to me.

ETA: That Louis Jordan was a very famous jazz musician. I was lifting an piece of his song 'Is you is or is you ain't my baby.' Sorry, music is a huge part of my life as I have been creating music since I was about 5 years old.

 

[irmadlad]

Alan, thank you for your comment

 

[irmadlad]

RE: What we have in scripture are the infallible truths of God. The original manuscripts were the inspired words of God not the translations.

Ok, I can work with that. I just wanted a read on the room. As I said, Christianity is a huge umbrella of belief systems. Not everyone holds the same beliefs.

Thank you for your time and comments.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Alan, thank you for your comment

Christianity is a huge umbrella of belief systems.

In his first couple of points, I. & II., see what you think about what this author said there, for starters, in:

"I. Definition of Theology: Theology is the science of God and of the relations between God and the universe. Though the word “theology” is sometimes employed in dogmatic writings to designate that single department of the Science which treats of the Divine Nature and Attributes. Prevailing usage, since Abelard (AD 10791142) entitled his general treatise “Theologia Christiana,” has included under that term Theology, the whole range of Christian Doctrine. Theology, therefore, gives account, not only of God, but also of those relations between God and the Universe in view of which we speak of Creation, Providence and Redemption..."

"II. Aim: The aim of Theology is the ascertainment of the facts respecting God and the relations between God and the Universe, and the exhibition of these facts in their rational unity, as connected parts of a formulated and organic system of truth. In defining Theology as a science, we indicate its aim. Science does not create; it discovers. Theology answers to this description of a science. It discovers facts and relations, but it does not create them."

Then, he goes on at this link, but I just wanted to list his Content page, in case we want to address a topic he has listed systematically. Looks like your first three questions or concerns you had form themselves into three broad, Major categories.
.

SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY by A.H. Strong
Volume 1 - The Doctrine of God.
Part 1 - Prolegomena ​

Chapter 1 - Idea of Theology
I. Definition
II. Aim.
III. Possibility.
IV. Necessity. - The Necessity of Theology Has Its Grounds
V. Relation to Religion.

Chapter 2 - Material of Theology.
I. Sources of Theology.
II. Limitations of Theology.
III. Relations of Material to Progress in Theology

Chapter 3 - Method of Theology
I. Requisites to the Study.
II. Divisions of Theology.
III. History of Systematic Theology
IV. Order of Treatment in Systematic Theology.
V. Textbooks in Theology,

• To put a finer point on it, Christians believe in a God who knows all, sees all, is all, does all, created all; seen and unseen.

Part 2 - The Existence of God ​

Chapter 1 - Origin of Our Idea of God’s Existence.
I. First Truths in General.
II. the Existence of God a First Truth.
III Other Supposed Sources of Our Idea of God’s Existence
IV. Contents of This Intuition.

Chapter 2 - Corroborative Evidences of God’s Existence
I. the Cosmological Argument, Or Argument From Change in Nature.
II. the Teleological Argument, Or Argument From Order and Useful Collocation in Nature.
III. the Anthropological Argument, Or Argument From Man’s Mental and Moral Nature.
IV. the Ontological Argument, Or Argument From Our Abstract and Necessary Ideas.

Chapter 3 - Erroneous Explanations, and Conclusion.
I. Materialism.
II. Materialistic Idealism.
III. Idealistic Pantheism.
IV. Ethical Monism.

• Christians believe that their Bible is the infallible, inspired word of God. Now, ... What I mean by inspired is: God reaching over the shoulder of the scribe as he dipped his reed in the inkwell, and wrote the words that God whispered into his ear. That kind of inspired.

Part 3 - The Scriptures a Revelation From God. ​

Chapter 1 - Preliminary Considerations.
I. Reasons For Expecting A Revelation From God.
II. Marks of the Revelation Man May Expect.
III. Miracles, As Attesting a Divine Revelation.
IV. Prophecy As Attesting a Divine Revelation.
V. Principles of Historical Evidence Applicable To The Proof of a Divine Revelation

Chapter 2 - Positive Proofs That the Scriptures Are a Divine Revelation.
I. the Genuineness of the Christian Documents,
II. Credibility of the Writers of the Scriptures.
III. the Supernatural Character Of The Scripture Teaching.
IV. the Historical Results of the Propagation Of Scripture Doctrine.

Chapter 3 - Inspiration of the Scriptures.
I. Definition of Inspiration.
II. Proof of Inspiration.
III. Theories of Inspiration.
IV. the Union of the Divine and Human Elements in Inspiration.
V. Objections to the Doctrine of Inspiration.

• Christians believe in an infinite, omnipotent, omniscient God, without limitations. We could sum up everything God could ever be described as with two words; 'without limitations'. I'll foreshadow here a bit and tell you I'm going to lean in heavily on 'without limitations'. Without limitations is the crux, the key. Without this, everything else falls apart. When you reach the level of "without limitations" you either is or you is not, to quote Louis Jordan. There is no gray area, because gray areas would render God limited and therefore not God.

Part 4 - The Nature, Decrees, and Works of God.
Chapter 1 - The Attributes of God.
I. Definition of the Term Attributes.
II. Relation of the Divine Attributes To the Divine Essence.
III. Methods of Determining the Divine Attributes.
IV. Classification of the Attributes.
V. Absolute Or Immanent Attributes.
VI. Relative Or Transitive Attributes.
VII. Rank and Relations of the Several Attributes.

Chapter 2 - Doctrine of the Trinity.
I. in Scripture There Are Three Who Are Recognized As God.
II. These Three Are So Described in Scripture That We Are Compelled to Conceive of Them As Distinct Persons.
III. This Tri-personality of the Divine Nature Is Not Merely Economic and Temporal, But Is Immanent & Eternal.
IV. This Tri-Personality Is Not Tri-Theism; For, While There Are Three Persons, There Is But One Essence.
V. the Three Persons, Father, Son, And Holy Spirit, Are Equal
VI. Inscrutable, Yet Not Self-Contradictory, This Furnishes the Key to All Other Doctrines.

Chapter 3 - The Decrees of God.
I. Definition of Decrees.
II. Proof of the Doctrine of Decrees.
III. Objections to the Doctrine of Decrees.
IV. Concluding Remarks.

 

[Silverhair]

RE: What we have in scripture are the infallible truths of God. The original manuscripts were the inspired words of God not the translations.

Ok, I can work with that. I just wanted a read on the room. As I said, Christianity is a huge umbrella of belief systems. Not everyone holds the same beliefs.

Thank you for your time and comments.

@irmadlad could you tell me what you do accept/understand about Christianity?

That would give us a starting point for this discussion.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

There really doesn't seem to be a standard, which bothers me greatly. I like standards.

I believe God has Laid Out the Clearest, most Accommodating 'Standards' for Belief, Doctrine, and Organization, in His Word, and as a BAPTIST there I can only offer what is available in The New Testament, under the Lordship of Christ.

The questions will come, I assure. For now, I just want to get a read of the room. As I said, Christianity is a huge umbrella of beliefs and convictions.

I am in the room as a BAPTIST. I am a BAPTIST Missionary to the Baptist Board Forum.

I turned off the TV decades ago.

Suburb move.

(People have no idea. There are thoughts we can have all day that aren't someone else's brainwashing narratives all the time talking our heads off every second. As if that's going to get anyone closer to the Lord).

Since I was a wee lad, I've had this insatiable lust for to know.

Jesus said, "Ask, Seek, and Knock", such as when we actually want to understand something, we'll hear ourselves give to it God in Prayer.

Where once we saw chaos, now, with better technology and a different perspective, we see order, logic. To put that a religious perspective, if a God created all that we see and don't see, and it operates with logic, order, and precision, then I would expect that God to be a God of logic, order, and reason.

Yes, that's reasonable, and yet in the Spirit Realm where God Lives, He is Spirit, and The Spirit Realm is Above any 'Facts'.
In other words the Spirit world has Supernatural Power over Natural, Physical Reality.

That's what makes a Miracle what it is, when something happens and God Knows that we know, that He Knows; "God Will Make a Way, When there Ain't No Way"...and it can't be explained any other way.

The Spirit Realm simply overwhelmed and overcame something material in the Natural Physical Realm of 'facts'.

 

[irmadlad]

I'm going to try replying to myself and everyone can comment on each reply. I'm trying to do this in an orderly fashion, given the parameters of this forum's software, instead of bits here and there to individual users. I will do my very best to reply to all comments.

In my reading, the entire Biblical story pivots on one, single moment in time. It's not, as Christians like to focus on, the cross. It wasn't God being nailed to a cross through His palms (which brings up some serious anatomy issues), to suffer and die, to shed his blood figuratively and literally for the sins of all mankind. This happened when the world was null and void. When there wasn’t anything to call anything. This very moment in time is when God decided to create angels. Some angels were famous you could say. You don't have to crack the binding of a Bible to know who Gabriel is. There was one other very important angel, and he is known by many names: Belial, Beelzebub, Baphomet, Prince of Darkness, The Evil One, Lucifer, Satan, et al.

God created Lucifer knowing he would try to pull a coup d'état on an infinite God without limitations. For a supernatural being, Lucifer was not very bright. However, God created Lucifer with express, explicit, infinite, foreknowledge, that:

• Lucifer would rebel. • God knew he would kick Lucifer out of heaven. • God knew that Lucifer would take a horde of angels with him. • God knew that their first stop would be planet Earth, specifically Eden. • God knew, there in the Garden of Eden, Lucifer would tempt the first two humans on the planet. • God knew that Adam and Eve would disobey him. • God knew that he would kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. • God knew this very act would forever plunge the world into unspeakable pain, agony, sorrow, torture, death, wars, famines, pestilence.

God knew this with express, explicit, infinite, foreknowledge, and He did it anyway!

What I'm describing is essentially a framing of the problem of evil, but with a sharper edge than the typical version, because I'm centering it on foreknowledge before the Fall, not just God's awareness after the fact. The real hinge point isn't the crucifixion. It's Creation itself, specifically the creation of Lucifer with full, infinite foreknowledge of everything that would cascade from that act. God, being unlimited in knowledge, knew the entire chain of consequences before Lucifer even existed; the rebellion, the fall of humanity, and millennia of suffering, and chose to create him anyway. Without Lucifer, the whole Biblical story falls apart. Without Lucifer, there is no sin, suffering, pain, agony, torture, death, famine, wars, or pestilence.

This cuts deeper because it places the decision at God's feet before any free-will choice was ever made by any creature. It wasn't Lucifer's rebellion or Adam's disobedience that set the chain in motion. It was God's deliberate choice to create beings He knew would cause immeasurable suffering. Free will becomes almost a deflection here, because the question isn't "why did Lucifer choose to rebel?" It's "why did God create someone He knew would rebel, knowing the catastrophic cost?" It's not that evil snuck in despite God's plan. It was baked into the plan from before the foundation of the world, by an omniscient Creator who knew exactly what He was building.

For those who prefer inquiries to be hard coded with a question mark:

• Did Lucifer have free will? If he did, would God have had to make a Lucifer 2.0 to carry out the rest of the Biblical plan?​
• Did Adam and Eve have free will? Could they have decided to obey God and thus we’d all still be kicking it in Eden to this day?​
• Why would a God who says He loves us, create beings he knew from infinity, would cause such staggering, living torture?​

 

[xlsdraw]

I'm going to try replying to myself and everyone can comment on each reply. I'm trying to do this in an orderly fashion, given the parameters of this forum's software, instead of bits here and there to individual users. I will do my very best to reply to all comments.

In my reading, the entire Biblical story pivots on one, single moment in time. It's not, as Christians like to focus on, the cross. It wasn't God being nailed to a cross through His palms (which brings up some serious anatomy issues), to suffer and die, to shed his blood figuratively and literally for the sins of all mankind. This happened when the world was null and void. When there wasn’t anything to call anything. This very moment in time is when God decided to create angels. Some angels were famous you could say. You don't have to crack the binding of a Bible to know who Gabriel is. There was one other very important angel, and he is known by many names: Belial, Beelzebub, Baphomet, Prince of Darkness, The Evil One, Lucifer, Satan, et al.

God created Lucifer knowing he would try to pull a coup d'état on an infinite God without limitations. For a supernatural being, Lucifer was not very bright. However, God created Lucifer with express, explicit, infinite, foreknowledge, that:

• Lucifer would rebel. • God knew he would kick Lucifer out of heaven. • God knew that Lucifer would take a horde of angels with him. • God knew that their first stop would be planet Earth, specifically Eden. • God knew, there in the Garden of Eden, Lucifer would tempt the first two humans on the planet. • God knew that Adam and Eve would disobey him. • God knew that he would kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. • God knew this very act would forever plunge the world into unspeakable pain, agony, sorrow, torture, death, wars, famines, pestilence.

God knew this with express, explicit, infinite, foreknowledge, and He did it anyway!

What I'm describing is essentially a framing of the problem of evil, but with a sharper edge than the typical version, because I'm centering it on foreknowledge before the Fall, not just God's awareness after the fact. The real hinge point isn't the crucifixion. It's Creation itself, specifically the creation of Lucifer with full, infinite foreknowledge of everything that would cascade from that act. God, being unlimited in knowledge, knew the entire chain of consequences before Lucifer even existed; the rebellion, the fall of humanity, and millennia of suffering, and chose to create him anyway. Without Lucifer, the whole Biblical story falls apart. Without Lucifer, there is no sin, suffering, pain, agony, torture, death, famine, wars, or pestilence.

This cuts deeper because it places the decision at God's feet before any free-will choice was ever made by any creature. It wasn't Lucifer's rebellion or Adam's disobedience that set the chain in motion. It was God's deliberate choice to create beings He knew would cause immeasurable suffering. Free will becomes almost a deflection here, because the question isn't "why did Lucifer choose to rebel?" It's "why did God create someone He knew would rebel, knowing the catastrophic cost?" It's not that evil snuck in despite God's plan. It was baked into the plan from before the foundation of the world, by an omniscient Creator who knew exactly what He was building.

For those who prefer inquiries to be hard coded with a question mark:

• Did Lucifer have free will? If he did, would God have had to make a Lucifer 2.0 to carry out the rest of the Biblical plan?​
• Did Adam and Eve have free will? Could they have decided to obey God and thus we’d all still be kicking it in Eden to this day?​
• Why would a God who says He loves us, create beings he knew from infinity, would cause such staggering, living torture?​

Paul covered this in Romans chapter 9.

 

[Silverhair]

Did Lucifer have free will? If he did, would God have had to make a Lucifer 2.0 to carry out the rest of the Biblical plan?

Yes Lucifer did have free will. All the angels did. Would God have needed to make a Lucifer 2.0, NO.
God being omniscient foreknew all that would happen. If Lucifer had chosen not to rebel then that is what God would have known would happen. But as we know Lucifer and a third of the angels did choose to rebel and as they say the rest is history.

Did Adam and Eve have free will? Could they have decided to obey God and thus we’d all still be kicking it in Eden to this day?

Yes Adam & Eve did have a free will. Could they have chosen differently, of course as that is what free will means. But they chose to believe the lie and here we are living in a world that has both love and hate. Free will is a gift of God and as it turns out it is either the best or worst gift a person can have.

Why would a God who says He loves us, create beings he knew from infinity, would cause such staggering, living torture?

Because if man did not have a free will with which to choose to worship or to reject God then could you say it was real worship?
If man had only one option, worship God, then it would be no different than having a robot say I worship God.
We see in Deu 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength." Those words presuppose a genuine free will decision on the persons part.

So the options are create a world such as we see or one where every thought and action has been predetermined.

 

[Mike B]

Madlad,

You mentioned in your post in the Introduction forum:

I have studied many religions: Christianity, Mormonism, Taoism, Jainism, Buddhism. I am familiar
with SDA/JW, Hindu, somewhat familiar with Judaism, and a few handful of others. Four years ago I finished
reading the Quran.

Quite clearly, you are searching for "something". That is a whole lot of stuff to study, but still, you are here
searching, as too many questions remain.

It is my most sincere hope you will bear with me, as I am going to ask you to set all of that knowledge aside
for a moment. All of the complex theological and metaphysical study in the world can not save our souls;
instead, it becomes a swamp of theological quicksand that we find ourselves sunk in up to our necks. Questions
upon questions, and the constant comparison of one thing to another. Quite a mess to sort through, indeed.

FWIW, my wife tells me I lack "filters", so I apologize in advance for my bluntness and plain speaking. This may
be a lengthy post, but again, I ask you to bear with me and follow it through.

Understanding basic Christianity does not require one bit of deep, theological study. It is so simple a
child can understand.

Facts in evidence: Jesus Christ lived, was beaten, crucified and died, rose again and ascended into heaven.

But ..why?

Because we are sinners. If it hadn't been Adam and Eve, I assure you someone else would have screwed up
and broke God's commandments. Sin is a stain on our souls, and God will not have such in His Heaven.
God so loves us, that instead of all of mankind being separated from God for eternity, God sent His Son,
Jesus Christ, to be a propitiation for us......Jesus, who was without blemish or sin, died so that we (you too)
would have an opportunity to go to Heaven and spend eternity with God.

You may say "I know all this"... yes, I believe you do, intellectually...but do you know it in your HEART?
As I once told my older brother..."Kelly, you can't brain your way into salvation and Heaven".

You joined this site, and a couple of others on the same day, which to me seems that God is drawing you
to find the most simple of answers.

John 6:44 “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus suffered and died to pay for my sins, your sins, and the sin of all mankind so that, if we choose, we can
accept the payment made for us. Simply accepting what Jesus did for you will not only bring salvation to your soul,
but also the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, a Teacher to guide you in your new Christian life. It is a Win - Win.

What about all those other made up religions and metaphysical theologies? Interesting stuff to know, but when it comes
to knowing God and Jesus Christ they ain't worth spit.

Jesus said to a man: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Because of His sacrifice, Jesus has every right: " If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "

In Romans 10- verses 9-13
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

Madlad, coming to KNOW Jesus, personally, and being saved from an eternity in hell is where Christianity
begins. All that beneficial theological knowledge can come later.

Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men,
whereby we must be saved."

So simple to understand.

With all my heart and prayers, I urge you to accept the payment that Jesus has made for you.

Mike