Hunter shot by Cheney has Heart Attack

Donna I knew what you meant, and I still don't buy that explaination. Yes, the shot goes somewhere, but not that many in a concentrated area (looking at the smoking gun report). Pellets from a .28 gauge will spread upon firing and from 30 yards away, would go in the air, and very few would come down to earth within that distance. Even if they did, it would be a very scattered pattern. From looking at the chart, it appears to be basically chest level shot, with the half going in Mr. Whittington, and half missing him. A hunting accident I'm sure, but the pellets falling from the sky in that tight a pattern, nope.

Again, that is just looking at the report on Smoking Gun.

 

Observations regarding this incident:

1. Patient privacy laws have been grossly violated.
Much of the delay in reporting could be easily explained by simply following the privacy laws recently imposed upon us by Congress.

2. The bird shot did not travel from the face to the heart.
Any shot that travels in this way would follow a major blood vessel resulting in a major fatal heart attack.

3. One of the ways heart attacks are determined is by following various enzymes that indicate muscle damage.
When the gentleman was shot there would be an immediate increase in the CPK enzymes (muscle damage occurred).
Any pellet causing any type of damage to the heart would also cause a spill of a special heart muscle enzyme (CPK-MB).
This would technically be a heart attack but would not present itself as such symptomatically.

4. The precautionary cardiac catheterization did not indicate any significant blockage requiring intervention.

5. Atrial fibrillation is not all that uncommon among the aged.
We do not know this gentleman’s history.
It requires a few days stay in the hospital to regulate anticoagulation therapy and attempting to control (or convert) it with medication.
In this case anti-coagulation therapy is complicated by traumatic injury necessitating a longer stay.

6. The Vice President should be fined for shooting a lawyer out of season.

Rob

 

Had he actually been shot at, and not falling shot, then he would have been injured a lot more then he was.

 

And do we know just how many individual wounds he actually had? Seems that would relevant to your theory he was shot at.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

What? They're not considered a "varmint" species??

 

Donna...I'm basing my theory on the police report on Smoking Gun that Lady Eagle linked on page one. Actually, with a .28 gauge, a direct shot from 30 yards would probably not be fatal. If you look at the drawing, and granted that is a police sketch, all shot is on the left side of the body (though the written report says right side). The highest concentration on the sketch is in the left chest area. This would be consistent with a shot that was actually off-aim, if Mr. Whittington had been the intended victim, as part of the shot hit him and part didn't. Shotgun blasts spread, and the further away, the more they spread. If it had gone in the air and then come down, it would have been spread even more, and very few would have hit Mr. Whittington. To hit as described on the police report under a scenario of shooting in the air and the pellets falling, Mr. Whittington would have had to bent over backwards for the pellets to hit him in that pattern.

Plus, when shooting quail, you generally do not shoot straight into the air. Most shots would be chest-to-head high, which would not give enough time for gravity to pull the pellets back down to earth in 30 yards. This pattern on the police sketch is consistent with a "swinging" motion that some (careless) hunters use when hunting quail.

Again, this is all based on the police sketch, but I generally found those to be accurate when I worked in law enforcement.

None of this is meant to defame Vice-President Cheney. But if he is stating that he fired in the air and then the pellets fell to the earth on Mr. Whittington, then its probably a good thing he had other priorities during Vietnam, because he doesn't need to use a gun.

 

The police report says that he was swinging on a quail and fired and hit the lawyer instead. . . On the second page there is a list of possible hunter error factors, and they even have a checkbox for this situation (swinging on game).

 

Petrel...I hadn't even looked for a page 2 on it, I had stopped on the sketch. Swinging on game would result in the pattern on the sketch....falling shot would not. Has Vice-President Cheney or his staff actually stated that it was from falling shot???

 

Hello, is this the "Enquirer" hotline?

This sure seems like a lot of sensational rubbish designed to sell "newspapers".

We certainly do not have enough facts to make any sort of conclusions.

Be kind, because Jesus is kind. He said we ought to be like Him.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

LadyEagle posted a link to a site that has copies of the report. If you click on the first page of the report it loads the second page.

As far as I know everyone unanimously agrees that he was swinging on a quail and hit Whittington at a distance.

 

He wasn't using buckshot. According the Wildlife report he was using 7 1/2 shot. The shot itself would be about the same size as the period at the end of this sentence.

I doubt whether shot this small from a dinky little gun like a 28 gauge would even penetrate heavy paper at 30 yards. And at that range the pattern would be in like a 6 foot circle. Not only would the face neck and chest be hit with the teenie tiny pellets but also the head, legs, arms, hands and what ever else was exposed to the huge pattern. Penatrate skin? Maybe. Penetrate clothing and rib cage? No way!

The spin on this story seems to have made me dizzy enough to break my silence.

 

Thanx, Poncho. We need someone who knows sumpthin' about firearms, and since I don't even own a shotgun, this makes sense.

 

From the looks of the wound in the report he was shot at a much closer range than 30 yards just from the density of the pattern (black spot). If we knew how many pellets where in this black spot we could guess pretty close to the range. I'd say maybe somewhere between 10 or 20 feet not yards. But like I say we'd need to know how many pellets were in that black spot. The pictures are kind of crude.

 

I'd agree Poncho....28 guage is not going to do a lot of damage at 30 yards. I would still be interested in knowing if the Vice-President or his staff has actually put out a statement stating the wounds were from a falling shot.

Sorry...but I don't see where it is "National Enquirer" to share factual information about shot patterns and distances.

 

Why is there so much concern about this? Cheney shot a lawyer. Shouldn't he get a medal?

 

I looked up shot size on the web, I found out that 7 1/2 shot is a little bigger than I remember, I've never used any smaller than number six myself to reload for 12 and 20 gauge shotguns. At any rate 7 1/2 isn't buckshot. I just cut open a Winchester 12 gauge shotgun shell with number 6 shot and measured it with dial calipers, I get .108. The typical steel bb is .177 and 7 1/2 is even smaller than .108. I held the number 6 shot up the screen of my pc to compare an actual size pellet to it and it sizes up better to number 9 than 7 1/2 shown in the diagram. So number 7 1/2 shot isn't that much bigger than I remember. Just wanted to be accurate.



Here's the sizes. http://www.gunshop.com/shotsize.htm

And here's a shotgun tutorial for those not familar with them and their uses.

Shotgun Ballistics

Wounding is a function of the type of shot, or pellets, used in the shotgun shell. Weight, in general, is a constant for a shell so that 1 oz of shot would equal either 9 pellets of double O buckshot or 410 pellets of #8 birdshot. A 00 or "double ought" pellet is essentially equivalent to a low velocity .38 handgun projectile. The spread of the pellets as they leave the muzzle is determined by the "choke" or constriction of the barrel at the muzzle (from 0.003 to 0.04 inches). More choke means less spread. Full choke gives a 15 inch spread at 20 yards, while no choke gives a 30 inch spread at the same distance. (DeMuth et al, 1976) A "sawed-off" shotgun has a very short barrel so that, not only can it be concealed more easily, but also it can spray the pellets out over a wide area, because there is no choke.

A shotgun shell is diagrammed below:

At close range, the pellets essentially act as one mass, and a typical shell would give the mass of pellets a muzzle velocity of 1300 fps and KE of 2100 ft/lb. At close range (less than 4 feet) an entrance wound would be about 1 inch diameter, and the wound cavity would contain wadding. At intermediate range (4 to 12 feet) the entrance wound is up to 2 inches diameter, but the borders may show individual pellet markings. Wadding may be found near the surface of the wound. Beyond 12 feet, choke, barrel length, and pellet size determine the wounding.

If the energy is divided between the pellets, it can be seen that fewer, larger pellets will carry more KE, but the spread may carry them away from the target. Pellets, being spherical, are poor projectiles, and most small pellets will not penetrate skin after 80 yards. Thus, close range wounds are severe, but at even relatively short distances, wounding may be minimal. Range is the most important factor, and can be estimated in over half of cases, as can the shot size used. (Wilson, 1978) A rifled slug fired from a shotgun may have a range of 800 yards. (Mattoo et al, 1974)

Shotgun slugs can produce significant injury, because of the slug's size and mass. At close range, survival is rare. In treating shotgun injuries, it is necessary to remember that the plastic shell carrier and the wadding (which may not appear on radiographs) can also cause tissue damage and may need to be found and removed. (Gestring ML et al, 1996)


SOURCE

 

____________________________________
Buckshot doesn't fall from out of a shotgun, it is forcefully projected out. A hunting accident like this is only common if all your buddies are named Bubba and everyone is drinking PBR. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't say it fell out of the gun. Get your facts about my posts straight or don't reply at all.
You aim, in the air at a bird, some is supose to hit the bird, but not all of it will, if any at all, the rest falls to the ground, or on whatever is below it. They call that GRAVITY.
Make any sense now?
And these accidents are common. Like it or not. </font>[/QUOTE]____________________________

Sorry if I ruffled your tail feathers donnA.
Falling buckshot? Still sounds far fetched . The gravitational pull in Corpus Christi must be stronger there than in other parts of the country.
How many of these type of accidents happen in Texas every year? Could you please post us some statistics?

 

Does anyone have a LINK showing how long after the initial accident, before the Vice-President talked to law enforcement?

 

Shot#7 1/2 is .094 inches in diameter--twenty times bigger than a period. The damage one of these projectiles can inflict at 30 yards is derived from an equation which is filled with many variables including: amount of powder, length of barrel, chemistry of pellet, muzzle velocity, choke arrangement, etc, etc.

Other things to consider: @ 30 yds. a full choke would produce a 30 inch dia. pattern with 258 pellets using a 28 ga. with 3/4 oz. of shot, everything else being equal; No choke would produce a 45" dia. pattern. About how many hits there would be on an average person could be calculated. There would be a variable according to the facing of the target.

Having been hit by "falling" birdshot from careless duck hunters, I can affirm that the shot does not penetrate the outer clothing. On the other side: people have been killed by small arms projectiles fired into the sky--randomly. Some of the victims were indoors?(Not so sure I believe that one.)

Murphy's Law being in effect--it is never a safe practice to even point a weapon at something without knowing what is between the muzzle and the target as well as beyond the target.

Interesting: shotguns are usually best fired with both eyes open.

Does anyone have the "rest of the story"?

Bro. James

 

Dick Cheney is due to appear on Fox News tonite at around 6:00 P.M.