Hunting vs Foraging

Any reference to any animal being killed in the Bible are in regards to hunting for food, killing an animal for sacrifice, or death due to punishment. Cite one where it is done solely for the "thrill", or for the fun.

 

This is what the problem is. If somebody is doing exactly what this sentence says, then I agree with you 100%, it's highly disrespectful at the very least. You cannot tell me that the people hunting for food purposes in the Bible did not experience a thrill and had fun being in the woods, it's impossible. So, therefore, it's the same exact thing.

 

As a whole species, it keeps the remaining deer healthier, with less disease, less starvation, etc. Also if you're going to worry about this, why not also worry about the beneficial side effect of cows being killed? I see no point in taking up for one species while ignoring the slaughter of another.

 

Actually you are the one implying that the Bible somehow condemns it...

Nonetheless- In spite of numerous flaws, one of the things Esau was not condemned for was being a man of the field... a great hunter. Since we have direct evidence that his killing was not necessary for the family to survive, there is a strong indication that the satisfaction of the hunt was a motivator.

Again since you seem to be condemning getting satisfaction from hunting it is up to you to provide scriptural support. You are asking us to prove a negative.

 

Who are YOU to say that? They are clearly "different" but they are not clearly "separate"... which is the issue in question.

God gave man animals for meat... that is scripture. He gave man stewardship over creation and the right to responsibly enjoy it.

We aren't driving deer into extinction. Quite the opposite. We are assuring their survival by managed harvesting.

Sport: Definition #1- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport

In addition to the response already given, do a web search on "wasting disease" or better yet read the Missouri Dept of Conservation's website concerning wildlife management.

 

Romans14: 4. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Romans14: 12. So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.

Christians certainly seem to waste a lot of time quarreling over disputable matters in spite of the fact that the Bible says not to do it.

MR

 

While we're on this subject, I wanted to ask something. Why is it that anti-hunters always get hung up on deer? They always mention "oh those guys are just looking for a nice rack and nothing else". I never hear anything else other than deer. Even this entire thread is centered around deer. Why not mention anything else?

I'll tell you what is thrilling and unnecessary: squirrel hunting. It's extremely fun, yet you can't use the skins, and the meat is pretty bad unless you cook it forever. So why aren't some of you guys mostly against squirrel hunting? It's much more "sport" oriented than deer hunting.

I haven't heard anybody talk about quail, dove, squirrel, moose, antelope, mountain lion, duck, goose, bobcat, turkey, fox (like in England)... NOTHING... just those poor innocent deer. It's the Bambi effect I tell you. It's kind of funny actually.

 

Any animal, if killed for "fun" unnecessarily (and to appease the flesh), is wrong. Deer aren't the only victims as you point out.

 

I would almost totally agree with your assessment for squirrels except for a very small number of exceptions. Basically, they're crazy fun to shoot, then eating them is an afterthought, as a way to justify it, mainly because nobody just _wants_ to eat squirrels, you have to go to great pains to make it edible and it's still just not that great. It is tough gamey tasting meat, especially male squirrels. They are hard to clean and they don't provide much meat. Squirrels don't usually cause deaths and thousands of dollars worth of vehicle damages in car wrecks. Any damage to crops is typically miniscule. Even though there are much less people hunting them, they don't usually have overpopulation problems that lead to fierce competition, starvation and disease. Even when you do clean, cook, and eat them, you will often bite down on steel pellets from your shotgun when it doesn't go all the way through, and about break a tooth off, it can hurt really bad. Yet, they're still hunted just because it's so much fun.

Deer on the other hand... are typically a much different story, with pretty much everything I just said being nearly the total opposite of what I just said about squirrels.

Yet, everybody seems to get hung up on deer and just totally ignore squirrels. THAT's what I don't get. I think I counted 36 times that deer were mentioned before I asked this question. Never saw squirrels mentioned one time. Never see them mentioned when other debates like this pop up either. It's all about Bambi.


HOWEVER, I sure hope none of it goes away, even squirrel hunting. As we advance as a civilization we should not think that we are too good to pass down skills such as hunting down to our children and grandchildren. There is great value in taking your kids hunting and fishing.

 

What about flys. Do you swat flys off the walls of your home.

 

I have friends who shoot and eat squirlles. But they eat that ocra also. Not for me, I just leave the squirlles alone.

 

I have no problem with any one going out and shooting an animal if:

1. They need the food
2. Someone else needs the food
3. The number of animals is endangering people's lives or livings
4. The number of animals is endangering their own species
5. Sometimes if the number of animals is hurting another species

We have been given the necessity of eating meat and so I think it necessary to kill. Also, we have been given the responsibility to be stewards of this world and sometimes we need to cull one species to help it or another species.

It is also fine to enjoy hunting and working but I believe the pleasure is normally derived from the result and not the process.

As I see it all death is a result of sin. So to enjoy death itself seems wrong. If watching the blood drain from an animal, knowing the pulse is stopping and death coming brings a smile to your face then I would seek some kind of counselling. If you consider that sport then I just don't understand.

BUT, I do not think that is ultimately what the pleasure for many is. The pleasure is derived from the challenge of stalking and outsmarting an animal. The pleasure comes from showing off to your buddies how big the kill or catch was. The pleasure comes from seeing your family and friends fed.

But to enjoy death is wrong.

Finally, "Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel. "

 

Best post of this thread, well said MNW. :thumbs:


MNW is right, most hunters I know view the kill as the nessessary end of the of the hunt. And I have known more then a few that have had an extra beautiful animal in their sights/scope and decided, for this time, to let the animal live and to just enjoy it for a moment. They then move on and try to kill another smaller animal.

I view the kill as the nessessary end of a hunt. It is the hunt I enjoy and not the death. I find the death sad on one hand but am greatful that I can provide food for myself on the other. And I have no dilusions about how the animal I buy in grocery store died.

I think the reason I like to hunt is there is something about knowing I can provide food for myself. Knowing that I do have the ability to be self sufficent in a world that is full of fast food drive thrus. When all meat is pattied into hamburgers and loaded with preservatives, I know I can provide and enjoy my food like my ancestors must have hunderds of years ago.

 

Photos don't taste as good, even with gravy on them! :laugh: Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

1. No... a picture of a deer steak grilled on an open flame (and not the real thing) just doesn't go with my beer as well, I don't like the taste of burnt paper. :thumbs:

2. Sometimes, I would enjoy it more. I've had two young bucks playfully fight for 20 minutes 10 yards in front of my stand and I just watched them and let them go. I've also had a bobcat sit right in front of me too. In times like that, if I had to choose, I would have been much more satisfied by taking a camera. But, that is not to say that I don't think you ought to take guns or whatever.


Also, part of your problem is that you have an extremely loose definition of "sport". The way that you see it, nearly everybody except for Grizzly Adams while trying to survive would be hunting for sport. It's just a flawed outlook to begin with. You don't take the word "satisfaction" into the equation... anything along those lines simply falls into the category of "thrilling, due to the bloodlust" in your view.

When I go hunting, personally the actual kill is the worst part for me, or at least immediately afterwards. I highly respect wildlife so any time that I take a magnificent animal out of the woods it bothers me a little, yet that's what I'm there for in the first place, so another word that I'm sure you're not familiar with overpowers this - THANKFULNESS. Anyway, sure you get a rush of adrenaline at the time of the kill... we're just hardwired to do that, there is no escape from it... that's why I stand behind my claim that there is no way possible to take what you are calling "thrilling" out of the equation, as even people doing it solely for food will experience this, yet it's wrong in your opinioin, that's why your outlook is flawed from the start. We were made to get an adrenaline rush while hunting, and EVERYBODY highly enjoys that. Period.

 

I have another question about these ill-formed misled opinions.

Why are all you anti's always hung up about modern guns??? What I mean is that the guys that do it more for the thrill than the food, they use bows, crossbows, and muzzle loaders. I'm not saying these guys are wrong to go, but if you want to single out any one group of thrill seeking hunters, it's bowhunters. With a bow, you're much less likely to get anything, you have to get really close, you have a high miss/maim rate, there is usually more pain involved with the animal's death because they usually make it further and longer after the shot, you have to be much better at calling (which I've heard you guys say was wrong before), etc. Its just more sport oriented than gun hunting.

So, given all those facts... why have you guys not mentioned bowhunting a single time? It makes no sense. You totally ignore stuff like squirrel hunting and shooting Bobcats just to get a mount, and you totally ignore bowhunting. You're all concerned about hunting deer with modern guns for some reason. Bambi lovers. :BangHead: