Hunting vs Foraging

I did actually kill a young buck this year. I don't go out looking for them though because yes I want to see them mature. I make no qualms that I am thrilled and get a rush of adrenaline when I hunt, I've never said that I didn't. All I'm saying is that the actual death of the deer isn't exactly the best part of it. Yes, me and everybody else goes hunting in order to bring home some game, that's the whole point.

The only thing you're doing is trying to decide whether it's right or wrong based on if (or at least when exactly) you get excited.

 

Isn't that what appeasing the flesh is...excitement? Why do men look at pornography? Why do some have affairs? Murder? It's to appease the flesh.

 

You're hung up with associating it with bad stuff though. You're saying that since it's thrilling, it's automatically bad.

Riding my bike is thrilling to me. Does that mean it is to be thrown in the same "appeasing the flesh" category as adultery?

I ride my four wheeler really fast... does that mean I'm on the same level as a murderer?

I'm quite sure that Jim Ryun was absolutely thrilled to the core when he became the first man to break 4 minutes on the 1 mile race... does that mean he's on the same level as a lying theif?

Hardly. It's just another activity in which we can enjoy outdoors instead of being fat and staying indoors. Plus, the end result is exactly the same thing as if you went to Krogers and bought your meat and stocked the freezer - an animal still died. We just get to enjoy life a little more than you guys. The end result is exactly the same, if not better, due to the wildlife management reasons and also health reasons, since storebought meat is alot worse for you.

I just don't buy the "excitement" argument, especially animals are still going to die anyway assuming you're a meat eater. If you guys had singled out specific groups that were nearly 100% sport oriented such as shooting Bobcats, sure, but getting hung up on deer... with the meat being so good for you, the wildlife management issues, the crop issues, the traffic issues, plus with animals still dying one way or another if you eat them, but then saying this is all still really bad because hunters feel "excited"??? Sorry, but that's just a lame argument.

 

"The slothful man roasteth not that which he took in hunting: but the substance of a diligent man is precious."
-- Proverbs 12:27


It never said that this diligent man can't get excited.:BangHead:

 

Also I feel that I should point out that the words "hunting" and "foraging" is simply not two separate different things as this thread is trying to make them out to be. You can't define "foraging" without describing "hunting". Hunting is a part of foraging.

http://www.google.com/search?source...=RNWN,RNWN:2006-39,RNWN:en&q=define:+foraging

"Foraging just means looking for food (or, metaphorically, anything else). However, it has acquired an important technical meaning within the science of behavioral ecology where it refers to predator-prey interactions (note that in ecology, prey can be plant as well as animals). It is also an important study in social anthropology, particular in relation to societies that follow, wholly or in part, the hunter-gatherer way of life. "

"collecting wild plants and hunting wild animals for subsistence."

"Another name for hunting and gathering."

"Collecting food that is available in nature, by gathering, fishing or hunting"

"A subsistence system based on the collection of wild foods, including any combination of hunting wild game, gathering wild plants, fishing, and shellfish collecting."

 

I am in no way associating it with "excited", that's the argument YOU state I'm making, not what I am actually making. I never said there is anything wrong with excitement. Excitement that APPEASES the flesh (sinful part of man) is what I'm talking about.

 

My bad... you used the word "thrilling". Basically the same thing.

You have no proof to show that these activities are in fact sinful, you're just assuming, based on it being "thrilling".

Why do you keep using this word? Nobody uses that in normal conversation, I can't even find it in the King James version in such a manner that you are using it in. All that word means anyway is to sastify, calm, relieve, provide what is needed, etc. So basically... if I have A.D.D. and I need adrenaline, if I ride my four wheeler fast to get that adrenaline, am I not appeasing my flesh? Sure it is. So is hunting. I just don't think it's bad.

 

ANYTHING that appeases the flesh is sinful. How can you not agree?

 

On a related note, I wonder how many people who are against hunting due to it being able to "appease the flesh" level are overweight? I'm pretty sure that WebDog himself has admitted that he has weight problems, wonder how many others do yet don't admit it. Gluttony is a sin, and it is in fact specifically mentioned in the bible. It does in fact "appease the flesh" just in this same manner. So, why are some people hung up about us hunting even though it's not mentioned as being bad, when they can't even handle their own fleshly lusts, yet it's specifically mentioned as being really bad in multiple places?

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
-- Matthew 7:3

 

Well that's exactly what I'm trying to find out... your definition of "appeasing the flesh". The way that I'm reading your definition, pretty much anything that is fun is sinful. Wow. You must be one boring dude.

So if I'm thrilled that I learned how to play a new song on my guitar last night, it's sinful?

If I enjoy a meal that I make, even if I don't overeat, that's sinful anyway?


Why even worry about hunting? Crap, I can't even enjoy the walk and the view of the clear night sky on the way back to my stand without it being sinful.

 

Amen, brother. There is nothing in the Bible that speaks specifically about hunting for sport. If some consider it sinful, they shouldn't do it. But, those that hunt (and enjoy it ) should not be condemned.

 

Gluttony is appeasing the flesh, yes, and it is a sin. Being overweight does not automatically mean one is a glutton, however. That is just plain ignorance. Many factors play into it like genetics, choice of food, etc. I will not get into it here, but from experience as a personal trainer, I know what I'm talking about. That is for another thread. On a side note, I do not have a weight problem.

Killing for sport is not encouraged in the Bible. In fact, as it was pointed out already, any killing of animals were as a result of food, sacrifice or punishment. The Bible doesn't mention torturing animals either, but if it's done for FUN, is that also acceptable if the Bible is silent on it? Certain things should be common sense. From Genesis we are put in dominion over animals, what God created and called "very good". Killing something that God calls "very good" for the sole purpose of FUN is sick. You need your head examined if killing anything for FUN excites you. Just becaue the actual words "Thou shalt not kill for fun" is not in the Bible (as Amy uses as a possible excuse), doesn't make it right.

 

I was not referring to the commandments but the Bible as a whole. Thou shalt not kill actually means thou shalt not murder. Killing an animal for food is not murder. The commandment not to murder is referring to humans. You are trying to make it say something that it doesn't to prove your point.

 

I saw a documentary once that said the original Hebrew text actually said something like "do not kill he who is judicially innocent", which obviously refers to nothing but people. Many people think that "thou shalt not kill" means animals too.

 

It is difficult to have a conversation with you on this subject, because you keep redefining the argument. I have always agreed with you, and I think everyone here has too, that it is wrong to wantonly kill animals for the specific "thrill" of killing. You SEEM to keep on insisting that people are doing something they are not doing.

My family enjoys deerhunting. No, they do not enjoy killing or get a "thrill" from death. But in one room in my house is mounted the head and rack of a 12 point buck. The meat from it was tasty and appreciated in our family budget. Yes, there was sport there. Deer do not line up to be harvested. But there was no blood lust.

Anymore than my German ancestors who killed the hog and made bacon and really great sausage. At Christmas time I intend to stop by a great butcher shop in MO that has some of the best German sausage you could ever get.

Anymore than my German grandmother and greatgrandmother who could wring a chicken neck very efficiently and have incredible chicken and dumplings and fried chicken.

Hunting deer is a sport. But it is not because of blood lust. It is because of the accuracy and patience needed to actually get one. As well as being outdoors. But if you are going to eat meat, which seems to be OK according to the Bible, it is difficult to eat the animal alive.

 

I think you should consider fishing. It's the same thing. The "fun" of it comes from being outside, from playing around with all the tackle, then the satisfaction that your preparations and patience paid off by landing something. There is no bloodlust there at all, the fish is nowhere near being dead even after you land it and it's in the boat. Nobody fishes to see a fish die. Yet, from a moral standpoint, it's the same thing as hunting. So, why aren't you guys down on fishing? Because it makes no sense, that's why. If deer weren't so cute and they weren't killed with a gun you guys would probably view hunting in the same manner.

 

So now excitement is wrong? Having normal relations with your wife is wrong if you get excited? Watching your kid make a tough hit on another kid in football then getting excited is sinful?

You've equated the enjoyment of hunting with gross sin without a single biblical or rational justification. I suspect it is you that is appeasing the flesh by being condescending and "morally superior" to those who happen to enjoy something that you don't like/understand.

If you don't enjoy it... then by all means don't do it. If you want to limit my Christian liberty by declaring that I should get no enjoyment out of it... then SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURE. Otherwise you are rejected just as anyone else would be who attempted to add their opinions to the Bible.

God willing my 12 and 13 year old sons and I will be in place before first light this Saturday hoping for a successful hunt. My 13 year old has had a good time scouting for the past couple of weeks. We'll use legal lures and enjoy the "sport" of matching wits with a crafty animal in its home environment. So far this year, God has blessed us with 3 good deer... I hope to see 2 or 3 more this weekend.

 

Hunting for the sheer joy of destruction would be sinful in my opinion. However I haven't run across very many people with that kind of bloodlust... and the ones I'd suspect of it still eat most of what they kill.

I wonder what Webdog thinks of Coyote hunting? MO encourages people to kill as many as they can. They are a nuisance and very quickly overpopulate if not controlled. Owls, hawks, and eagles have all suffered here because Coyotes are so successful at driving down the small game populations. Is hunts designed for game management with no intent to eat the kill always wrong?

 

You guys still talking about this?
Reread the thread. I never claimed "excitement" in itself is wrong, so leave the strawmen at home, thank you.

I also never equated hunting with "gross sin". The killing of an animal for the sake of satisfying the flesh, and not feeding the family, is what I have been saying all along.

 

You did in fact equate hunting to adultery and murder. I'm pretty sure those fall into the "gross sin" category.

I think what we hunters are mostly ticked at and are still argumentative over is that you have basically been saying that nearly all hunters, with very few exceptions, do in fact hunt for the sake of satisfying the flesh, with the eating of the animal only an afterthought as a means to justify it, therefore making it totally wrong, and that probably 98% of hunters are sinning by taking part in this activity, with the remaining righteous 2% being on the Grizzly Adams level and only hunting for survival's sake and viewing it as work instead of enjoying it.


I'd still like to hear your opinions about fishing.