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Hyles "enlightenment"
- Thread starter free2know
- Start date
DocCas
New Member
I generally avoid psychobabble, but you are "in denial." You did something really dumb, and when you realized you had done something really dumb, instead of saying "Wow, that was really dumb" - you look around for somebody else to blame so your ego can whisper, "It's not your fault, its that dirty IFB pastor's fault."
I had an Associate Pastor who exhibited the same tendency. No matter what happened, the first words out of his mouth were, "It's not my fault." He wrecked a church owned car because he was driving too fast in the rain, swerved between two cars, slid side ways and collided with the car in front of him. When he got back to the church his first words were, "It wasn't me fault." The CHP said it was his fault. The veteran missionary riding with him said it was his fault. The two adults in the back seat said it was his fault. But he could not bring himself to accept personal responsibility for his own errors. I fired him. The deacons concurred. The congregation concurred. He disagreed, it wasn't his fault!
[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]
I had an Associate Pastor who exhibited the same tendency. No matter what happened, the first words out of his mouth were, "It's not my fault." He wrecked a church owned car because he was driving too fast in the rain, swerved between two cars, slid side ways and collided with the car in front of him. When he got back to the church his first words were, "It wasn't me fault." The CHP said it was his fault. The veteran missionary riding with him said it was his fault. The two adults in the back seat said it was his fault. But he could not bring himself to accept personal responsibility for his own errors. I fired him. The deacons concurred. The congregation concurred. He disagreed, it wasn't his fault!
[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]
OK, so if I accept the fact thatI thought a man representing the word of God was telling me the truth because he had "facts" and Scriptures to back him up and no one else at the church ever questioned him (to his face) then what..... Ok, it is my fault I am dumb, and in denial....but the bigger problem is this man is still busy with these other people, spreading legalism and making all the other IFB's look bad,I can't change any of that but I can warn other people not be so dumb, right?????
Amen brother,I have seen the light!
Amen brother,I have seen the light!
BTW, I have no ego, it was shattered a while back and isn't denial a river somewhere??????
Speaking of psycho babble, ye olde church didn't believe in psychological issues either claiming that clinical depression could be cured by snapping outta it.... so even if were in denial according to them, I couldn't admit it, right
Speaking of psycho babble, ye olde church didn't believe in psychological issues either claiming that clinical depression could be cured by snapping outta it.... so even if were in denial according to them, I couldn't admit it, right
The way to spot these types of abusive and even cultish churches is to know your doctrine. It is the church's responsibility to disciple new believers to the point where they can feed themselves with the meat of the word. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen in Hyles like churches. Keep em stoopid so they won't know the difference.
As a teen, my mother and father had discipled me enough for me to see right through the pastor in our church who was nothing more than a narcissist and a Diotrophes. (III John.) It isn't so easy for new believers or believers that have not been taught like the Bereans- always check the Bible to see if what the preacher says is so! Seems to me, the same problem existed in the Dark Ages.
Believe you me, those abusive preachers will stand accountable!
As a teen, my mother and father had discipled me enough for me to see right through the pastor in our church who was nothing more than a narcissist and a Diotrophes. (III John.) It isn't so easy for new believers or believers that have not been taught like the Bereans- always check the Bible to see if what the preacher says is so! Seems to me, the same problem existed in the Dark Ages.
Believe you me, those abusive preachers will stand accountable!
DocCas
New Member
Joy, amen! I found myself in such a church several years ago (decades ago?). The problem was I really liked the pastor! But he was using people toward his own ends, preaching guilt trips, etc. I went to him and confronted him about it. He called the deacons into the office and had them rake me over the coals. After they finished I just looked at him and said, "That is all well and good, but you have not answered my questions. Do you intend to do so or should I just save us all a lot of time, pack up my family and leave?" I was making a small fortune at that time and my tithes made up about 40% of the general fund budget. He blanched and dismissed the deacons. We then talked, but we didn't make much progress, so I told him I liked him, respected him, loved him in the Lord, but believed it best to take my family elsewhere. We left and I have never regretted it. If I had stayed, the consequences would have been on my head. It wasn't easy, but my family was worth it.
You both obviously knew more scripture from other sources, how very, very fortunate that you did not have to find out the long hard way that some of us naive,trusting in the wrong people types.
I did learn the hard way. It still affects me, but hey, it was all my fault for trusting in the wrong things..........
I did learn the hard way. It still affects me, but hey, it was all my fault for trusting in the wrong things..........
Please note Joy said....
"Unfortunately, it doesn't happen in Hyles like churches. Keep em stoopid so they won't know the difference."
If you believe this, then you realize how long it may take people to start questioning the pastor's interptretation...which is frowned upon, actually you'd get attacked,,,,, and you wonder why I was STOOOOPID for so long. Fear my friends.....
My responsibility aside, the greater issue is my ultimate point...you can beat me over the head with a wet noodle all night long....How do you stop this type of false doctrine.....How do you deal with the walking wounded who don't know what to believe anymore?
I don't care what you think of me....I do care about people spreading false doctrine and I would like to make people aware of these "infractions" since you don't like the word abuse.
"Unfortunately, it doesn't happen in Hyles like churches. Keep em stoopid so they won't know the difference."
If you believe this, then you realize how long it may take people to start questioning the pastor's interptretation...which is frowned upon, actually you'd get attacked,,,,, and you wonder why I was STOOOOPID for so long. Fear my friends.....
My responsibility aside, the greater issue is my ultimate point...you can beat me over the head with a wet noodle all night long....How do you stop this type of false doctrine.....How do you deal with the walking wounded who don't know what to believe anymore?
I don't care what you think of me....I do care about people spreading false doctrine and I would like to make people aware of these "infractions" since you don't like the word abuse.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
What would you think of a pastor who says that womem who wear pants are transvestites?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
GET OUT QUICK!! That is a mark of just the kind of abusive preacher we are talking about on this thread!
What would you think of a pastor who says that womem who wear pants are transvestites?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
GET OUT QUICK!! That is a mark of just the kind of abusive preacher we are talking about on this thread!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
What would you think of a pastor who says that women who wear pants are transvestites?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd say he is an E,D,OT. Perhaps he likes to hear himself talk, or wants to shock people. Run away as fast as you can.
What would you think of a pastor who says that women who wear pants are transvestites?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd say he is an E,D,OT. Perhaps he likes to hear himself talk, or wants to shock people. Run away as fast as you can.
skysearcher
New Member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by free2know:
You both obviously knew more scripture from other sources, how very, very fortunate that you did not have to find out the long hard way that some of us naive,trusting in the wrong people types.
I did learn the hard way. It still affects me, but hey, it was all my fault for trusting in the wrong things..........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
free2know,
I am in a situation similar to yours and I have an idea of what you are going through. There are two choices for us, leave and don't look back or stay and expose. The chance is great that the later choice will backfire so what then? I do a great deal of praying and waiting on the Lord. I don't want to make a move that is not in His will for me. I have many close friends there and five family members.
You both obviously knew more scripture from other sources, how very, very fortunate that you did not have to find out the long hard way that some of us naive,trusting in the wrong people types.
I did learn the hard way. It still affects me, but hey, it was all my fault for trusting in the wrong things..........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
free2know,
I am in a situation similar to yours and I have an idea of what you are going through. There are two choices for us, leave and don't look back or stay and expose. The chance is great that the later choice will backfire so what then? I do a great deal of praying and waiting on the Lord. I don't want to make a move that is not in His will for me. I have many close friends there and five family members.
freetoknow, I did have to stay there for a long while afterwards. My parents now regret staying until things blew up, but at the time, they were being blackmailed by this man. You see, when someone either left or called him on something, he would slander them from the pulpit. This man had so much clout, that he even went to the pastors of the other churches to slander. (He even wrote my college to slander my family.) His favorite lines were, I don't believe them to be genuinly saved, and the wife is a troublemaker. We had heard him say things like this over and over in the pulpit about scores of families. After while, some of the men who endured this tried to meet with the deacons. The pastor threatened to have them arrested for trespassing on private property. These men were trying to stick it out in order to have this man voted out, so the work of the ministry could continue properly.
I guess we learned the hard way that sometimes you can stick it out and make the difference, but sometimes, you must bail.
I am truly sorry for what you endured, and I completely understand. It is a really tough thing to forgive, but if you don't, bitterness will creep into your soul, and you will never grow or heal after that point! Trust me, I know. I hadn't thought about this in years, till it was brought up here on the BB about a month or so ago. Then it all came rushing back to me, including the anger. Something that I thought was gone, I must deal with all over again. By the grace of God, I will, and go on to live a victorius Christian life. I will not fear what man can do unto me!
[ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: Joy ]
I guess we learned the hard way that sometimes you can stick it out and make the difference, but sometimes, you must bail.
I am truly sorry for what you endured, and I completely understand. It is a really tough thing to forgive, but if you don't, bitterness will creep into your soul, and you will never grow or heal after that point! Trust me, I know. I hadn't thought about this in years, till it was brought up here on the BB about a month or so ago. Then it all came rushing back to me, including the anger. Something that I thought was gone, I must deal with all over again. By the grace of God, I will, and go on to live a victorius Christian life. I will not fear what man can do unto me!
[ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: Joy ]
K
Katherine Atkinson
Guest
So are we saying that all HAC graduates are abusive Pastors? My Pastor is an HAC grad and he is NOTHING like what is described here.
Kathy
<><
Kathy
<><
Praise God for every pastor of ANY school who is NOT using spiritual power for abuse, intimidation, or laying on guilt trips.
Our new "Kathy" reminds us not to paint with such a broad brush. Not EVERY HAC grad or Hyles-wannabe will take things to the extreme and should not be libeled as such.
(On the other hand, you are known by the school you attended, the fellowship to which you belong, the missionaries you support. If a young preacher from HAC or PCC came to our State Fellowship looking for a church, he would NOT get a recommendation from most - no matter how good a person he was.
Not defending that blanket policy, just stating that it is a fact. The diploma on the wall will influence others the rest of your life.)
Our new "Kathy" reminds us not to paint with such a broad brush. Not EVERY HAC grad or Hyles-wannabe will take things to the extreme and should not be libeled as such.
(On the other hand, you are known by the school you attended, the fellowship to which you belong, the missionaries you support. If a young preacher from HAC or PCC came to our State Fellowship looking for a church, he would NOT get a recommendation from most - no matter how good a person he was.
Not defending that blanket policy, just stating that it is a fact. The diploma on the wall will influence others the rest of your life.)
T
timothyha22
Guest
Hello All,
I have been in similar situations with these type men. I believe most of the problem can go back to the way most Church governments are setup. I honestly believe it is very difficult for one man to have 100% control of a church without becoming a dictator. This is why I believe the Bible is clear in the Elders running the Church. Look it up. These men are human just like everyone else and it is very difficult to keep things in check when you have knowone you are accountable to. Remeber Iron sharpeneth iron.
I have been in similar situations with these type men. I believe most of the problem can go back to the way most Church governments are setup. I honestly believe it is very difficult for one man to have 100% control of a church without becoming a dictator. This is why I believe the Bible is clear in the Elders running the Church. Look it up. These men are human just like everyone else and it is very difficult to keep things in check when you have knowone you are accountable to. Remeber Iron sharpeneth iron.