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Amen! I think the perfect form for a Worship service is found in Nehemiah 8:2-8 where there was Praise, Reading of the Word and Exposition of the Word in worship. The Word of God is central in worship and I wonder if there is true worship where Preaching and Teaching are absent. Jesus made it clear we are to Worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH which implies a doctrinal grounding that is impossible without Preaching and Teaching.If there is not preaching from the pulpit you can be sure Jesus Christ has no part in that church.
Which "church" would that be? A local church? The "universal" church? Churches that do things differently than you? What church are you talking about? Such a statement kind of flies in the face of the whole "gates of Hell shall not prevail" teaching of Jesus.C.R.: Your liberal idea is why the church is dying
I have preached and listend to several different styles of preaching, but I have yet to hear an EXOGETICAL oneC.R.: People don't want to hear the word preached properly and exogetically
Are you now speaking in behalf of Jesus?C.R.: If there is not preaching from the pulpit you can be sure Jesus Christ has no part in that church.
Should it also include reading the Law aloud from daybreak to noon while the people are standing, the lifting of hands, bowing with our faces to the ground, other ministers instructing the listeners during the reading, weeping, the enjoying of choice foods and sweet drinks, and giving to the poor?Kiffin: I think the perfect form for a Worship service is found in Nehemiah 8:2-8 where there was Praise, Reading of the Word and Exposition of the Word in worship
Do you have some data to support this claim? I know for example that Rick Warren preaches 45-55 minutes on Sunday and that his sermons include lots of Scripture.Kiffin: Many contemporary churches have 45 minute singing, 15 minute sermon and some do not read Scripture, do not make Scripture the center point of sermons
If preaching/teaching is central (which I agree it should be), why is this a problem?Kiffin: some segregate God‘s people into a Contemporary Worship service and a Traditional service
1. Then it wouldn't be a church. It would just be a concert.Originally posted by JonathanDT:
1. In fact, I would love to find a church with NO preaching from the pulpit, just all singing and praying and praising and reading the Word of God.
2. Now preaching has it's place, but I would prefer it not happen on Sunday mornings during our church service.
3. This is all just a personal opinion though, I'm not basing this on any scriptures other then the fact that we are never told to have preaching during our church services, probably partly because the entire church format was so radically different.
As for hymns vs. praise & Worship, Ben summed up my position perfectly.![]()
You're right it isn't a suggestion, but I still don't think that it must be done every Sunday morning or the sun will stop. If you read Acts virtually all of the preaching is done to the unsaved. And when Paul mentions preaching in the Epistles, once again it is almost always talking about the unsaved or just a general "preach the word all the time" type thing. Plus, it never says from where the preaching is to be done. If someone wants to stand up and preach something right from their pew that would be fine. Anyway, I should have said that I would not have anyone do a prepared sermon every week. If someone had something that God laid on their hearts to share, by all means I'd love to hear it(Once again, it wouldn't have to be from a pulpit, though they would probably have to be up front just so everyone could hear them). If a Missionary was visiting I'd want to hear him speak! But a set, 30 minute sermon, I could do without on a Sunday morning. And of course I would have a huge amount of reading of The Word, and if someone had something to say about it, speak up!! But once again, I wouldn't have a prepared sermon. I don't see the precedence in Scriptures, unless someone has a verse that I missed. I just don't see why we stick preaching on a Sunday morning and say that it must be done then because the Scriptures say so(Which they don't).Originally posted by C.R. Gordon:
Jonathan, I do hope that was a joke.
#1 Jesus Christ/Scripture DEMAND that the word be preached. (2 Tim. 4:1-2) It's not a suggestion.
I must say that is the first time I've ever been called liberal.#2 Your liberal idea is why the church is dying.
People don't want to hear the word preached properly and exogetically. You sound like the people in 2 tim 4:3-4
I'd love to hear the Scriptural reference for this. I searched the Bible for "pulpit," but couldn't find anything. However, since this is such a strong statement, I'm sure I must have missed something.If there is not preaching from the pulpit you can be sure Jesus Christ has no part in that church.
Why not?Posted by Preach The Word:
1. Then it wouldn't be a church. It would just be a concert.
Correct, however I never said I wouldn't have any preaching at all(or more specifically using the verse you're talking about prophesying). It's just that I wouldn't have a prepared sermon every (or many) Sunday morning(s).2. According to Scripture, it converts the lost and edifies the saved.
A more precise term I should have used was preference, not opinion. Reread my original post and maybe you'll catch what I was talking about. From what I can find, Timothy is the only place where the preaching is implied as happening in the church(And the one part in Acts that Refreshed mentioned where the man fell asleep). Hmmm. It requires more thought. My thinking at the moment is that I still think that my original premise is perfectly acceptable in not having a prepared sermon. Of course preaching could be done, but it would be something that was based more on how God was moving people, not an every week has to be done type of thing. If someone felt that God was moving them to say something before the church, then by all means.3. If it is just your opinion, why would you start a church on that? Btw, preaching is a command for pastors during the church service. Paul told Timothy to "Preach the Word" (hey, that is a catchy name). The purpose of his writing to Timothy to begin with was so that he might know how to conduct himself in the house of God.
And Praise has the same root as "to celebrate," "to make a show," "to boast," "thus to be (clamorously) foolish." To borrow a phrase, "Folks, being quite, still, low key, isn't praise. You ought to be clamoring foolishly, celebrating, boasting about yer GOD."Originally posted by av1611jim:
...I'm told that if you look up the root of the word for worship you will find the same root for PROSTRATE. The similarity is uncanny. Folks hooting, waving they hands, shouting, singing repetitiously, ain't worship. You ought to be on yer face before a KING....
To your ear. But that's ok, God hears everything perfectly. The music was made for him and those of us humans who enjoy it. Since we both know the difference, I believe that is all that truly matters.So for the last few weeks I have earnestly listened to an CCM station in my area. It is called the "NETWORK OF PRAISE". There is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE twixt that junk than the local TOP 40 station....
Read the post above this for my response, it's too long to retype here. In a nutshell, I don't think that these verses say that we must have a prepared sermon preached from the pulpit on Sunday mornings.Next. No preaching? Ok. Yer welcome to your opinion. Many politicians also have opinions. Don't mean nuthing though.
1 Cor. 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to PREACH the gospel,..."
vs 18 "For the PREACHING of the Croos is to them that perish foolishness:..."
vs 21 " For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it PLEASED GOD by the foolishness of PREACHING to save them that believe."
vs 23 "but we PREACH Christ crucified, ..."
1 Cor 2:4 "And my speech and my PREACHING was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in DEMONSTRATION of the Spirit and power:"
That ain't me telling you, it's right there in GOD'S book, if you want an opinion. BTW, I will take GOD'S opinion anyday.
Jim
"7-11 Music".
7 words, and sung 11 times through.![]()
Let's see... how about I Have Decided to Follow Jesus. That is like 6-3-9-6-8-9. "No turning back" goes 6 times plus 2 for each additional verse.Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
I call the modern travesty that passes for music in my church "7-11 Music".
7 words, and sung 11 times through.