Bethelassoc
Member
Allan said:'
Actaully, I'm in the process of getting Phil at Spurgeon.com approval of the Monergism listing as well. I seriously doubt that he will disagree, but I am still asking for confirmation.
I don't believe that will sway the calvinists that already spoke on here even if both sides are in agreement. It depends on ones interpretation of John Calvin's writings as well as how they view scripture.
I (and many others - most specifically Calvinists) would disagree with such a vague definition of absolutism, and man has no part in it.
Let me clarify my vagueness. I was referring to absolutism in reference to Hyper calvinism. An example is Absolute Predestination, in which man has no part in his "salvation". It didn't take place while hearing a gospel message preached, after a message was preached, etc. He just is one of God's elect. He was born that way. Historic calvinists don't agree with an absolute view such as that.
I guess we could nitpick about OSAS, eternal security, but my focus for absolutism lies more in the man has no part, just like the extreme arminian view that man does all the foot work in getting saved/ God has no part.
There is an abundance of information to show what HC is and where it is distintively different from the historically held Calvinistic view. Mr Johnson did not say "we have defined our own criteria" but just like monergism set their criteria up in accordance where the two views divide from the the historical perspective of Calvinsim.
Of course there is a difference between the two systems. The problem at hand from what I understand when talking to calvinists is that they do redefine terms that don't coincide with what John Calvin penned in his writings. But does everyone fully understand what Calvin actually wrote?
The criteria of hyper is that which is not consistant with the historically held views of Calvinism. WHile it can not be set down as one simple defintion to fit all types of HC's a definition in deed can be brought about to identify them individually - and that is what Phil was meaning. Not only is it definable (though I agree anybody can take a good thing and turn it into a witch hunt) but it's prime and basic views have been withstood for the last 3 or 4 centuries. These are summed up in the two listings set forth. And it is set forth not by a Non-Cal's understanding (Like Dave Hunt) but by Cals who understand Calvinism much better than I do and that which is called HC.
Right. But like what was mentioned before in this thread, HC is an extreme view. It is taking (some, if not most) tenets of calvinism to an absolute view. Does every HC believe this way? No. Does every calvinist believe in the 5 points?..... Here's where the fighting takes place. I think there's as much inner debating about calvinism as there is with the C/A conflict.
But let me also state this if may, I do agree that Hyper-Calvinism is best labeled extreme but extreme in accordance with the historical view Calvinsim. A the lists help identify those who are or have HC tendencies.
Wouldn't it be extreme to arminianism as well?
David