canadyjd said:
pinoybaptist
I don't accept that Paul separates salvation into the categories you talk about. He continually states that true salvation brings with it the expectation of moral living and the rejection of the things of the flesh.
Friend: accept what you will, but the Bible is replete with examples of God's people talking about salvation in the timely sense.
Salvation that does not cover my sin and bring me into the presence of God can hardly be called "salvation" at all.
The blood of Christ covers all the sins, past, present, and future,, of all His people, past, present, and future, and secures their eternity for them.
In Christ his children are seated in heavenly places (Eph. 2:6), and therefore,
in Christ the child of God is in the presence of God.
However, the child of God, until he exits this plane called time, remains in a body of sin and remains in an environment of sin, that is why he is brought by God into a church where he is to be fed, edified, disciplined, taught, and fellowship with other children of God.
In that sense, one is
saved from further sinning against God and thus getting chastised, or suffering the consequences of sin in this plane.
However, his eternal resting place is secured in Christ because it was secured for him by Christ.
Regardless, I Cor. 1:21 is certainly talking about salvation of the soul,
No, it is not. The Corinthians were brethren, fellow believers, Paul is concerned about their behavior, and the fact that God is chastising the church. Read 1 Corinthians 11:30. As a matter of fact, read the entire book.
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and the gospel is the means by which that salvation, which is secured by Christ on the cross, is appropriated by those who believe.
By this statement are you saying that God only started saving after the cross ? that there were no saved people before the gospel was preached as it is preached now ? What are you going to do about Samson, Noah, Abraham, Samuel, King David, Job, the various kings of Israel, Ruth, Rahab, and the other OT saints ?
There was no gospel by which the salvation of Christ could be appropriated.
And for that matter, what are you going to do with the millions who have never, or will never get the chance to hear the gospel so that salvation can be appropriated to them.
Have you damned all them to hell ?
Has God damned all of them to hell because Christ died on the cross for sinners, yeah, but, unfortunately, there is no human being that can take the gospel to them so, well, that's it, sorry folks ?
You have stated that those who are "elect" do not have to hear the gospel to be saved. Please tell how faith in Jesus came into their lives without hearing the gospel? Do you believe faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation?
peace to you
raise:
The gospel is good news. It does not happen because one believes in it. You believe it
because it happened. Therefore, how can hearing good news about somebody dying for me save me ? It is not the good news that saved me, it is the fact that somebody died in my place, and now I do not have to worry about the penalty for my sins.
This is all very elementary.
Yet man always desires to have something else added into the equation and that is he wants him to be an active component.
There is only one who acted in the matter of man's eternal salvation, and that one is the Triune God.
Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, we have nothing at all to do with our salvation.
We cannot strengthen it with good works, we cannot diminish from it with evil works.
Our relationship to God here on earth, however, is another matter.
God will not bless his child if his child continues in sin, and so we need to be saved from the daily ravages and influences of sin in our lives here on earth in order to walk with our Father.
However, not having any man to teach us will not hinder the Spirit from witnessing to our spirit on how we ought to behave as children of God.
